Or so I've been told..and I can't lie, the arguments in favor of the Viper are compelling. What say you?
Thursday, December 13, 2012
AH-1Z. The most powerful, capable and advanced attack helo flying today.
Or so I've been told..and I can't lie, the arguments in favor of the Viper are compelling. What say you?
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I disagree. The Apache Blk3 is better. Bigger guns, more armor, faster, better avionics, optional DIRCM, etc.
ReplyDeleteThe AH-1Z and the new AH-64E are,IMO,the best attack helicopters today.The Apache as better armour and a bigger(better?)cannon.The Zulu Cobra is a a smaller target and it looks like USMC pilots train to use air-to-air missiles...the Apache can also carry Stingers and sidewinders but i never saw Army helos in that configuration...gess the Marines think that some day their gunships will have to fight for the right to fly...Interesting to see that Taiwan has armed their AH-64 with Stingers...
ReplyDeleteI also think that the ZuluCobra is cheaper and easier to maintain than the Apache an cheaper to buy...similar sensors and capabilities(only AH-64 advantage is that its cap.of operate UAVs)...Winner is the Zulu Cobra.We will see in the Korean competition
No Longbow on the Cobra.
ReplyDeletearmy removed longbow in afghanistan. not enough juice for the squeeze...besides lets be honest...longbow is a fulda gap setup...not for modern helo ops.
DeleteB.Smitty is wrong.The Longbow radar is a feature of the ZuluCobra.Its monted on a wing tip when needed.
DeleteBut i agree with you Solomon.Maybe thats why we see the move of the top sight on the OH-58 D from the rotor back to the nose on the OH-58F.Simpler is getting more interesting in modern wars.But its nice to have the feature if we need to fight of tanks or small fast boats on a future war.
yeah everyone is geeked over the Brimstone type guidance but before the Brits did it in Libya it hadn't really caught on. i think you'll see heavy anti-tank missiles go the way of the dodo bird anyway...the 2.75 guided rocket will be the rage and everyone will use it to take out anything short of a MBT and even then i don't know how many threat enemy tanks can stand up to two or three hits of 2.75 on the upper plates.
DeleteRemember that JAGM will have a trimode seeker so the Longbow radar will be relevant alongside the SAL seeker. Best of both worlds.
ReplyDeleteTo some extent all you are seeing is that the newest design with the latest avionics and engines has advantages, just as the AH-64E will pick up a lot of capability even compared to the very capable AH-64D. Comparison to UK Apaches, which feature a variety of improvements of more recent vintage than the 64D would also be a tougher one.
ReplyDeleteIt's horses for courses: USMC has a different armament philosophy and is willing to accept an airframe without the built in armor and crash resistance of an AH-64 (same with UH-1Y vs. Blackhawk). This saves weight and money but makes the asset more brittle. An A-129 loaded weight is substantially less than the AH-1Z empty weight, so you're looking at a third design philosophy there, also not directly comparable.
Hinds are old and a design dead end; SADF never had the resources to make the Rooivalk work. Kamov comparison, however, should be to the Ka-50-2 "Erdogan", not the Alligator. It had a modern Israeli avionics fit and was very heavily armed, though I imagine cost and the Russian weapons fit worked against it in the Turkish competition.
Hello Solomon,
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, you haven't displayed any argument at all! 4 pictures won't be enough convince anybody!
Please have a look here: http://www.blueskyrotor.com/blog/2012/11/attack-helicopters-equipment-part-2/
You will see what is available on which aircraft.
Yes, the Longbow radar was removed from the US Apache in Afghanistan, but the same aircraft is also flown by the British with a better engine: they are able to fly with the radar. Unbelievable but true: US Apache is not the best. The British have a better engine, Japanese have an A/A missile...
Cobra is far from being the best attack helo. Have you even had a look at the European, Russian or even the latest Chinese HC? The world is full of surprises!
Havoc or mi 35 hind produced here in SA? capability wise I'm fan of the Hind still
ReplyDeleteI have heard that during the first Gulf war the Apache was a maintenance hog due to rotor blades and engines being eaten up while the cobra could keep flying with much fewer maintenance hours. Is this still so during the current conflicts? If so AH-1Z wins on availability.
ReplyDeleteYup, and the Cobra's had a higher kill ratio compared to the Apache.
DeleteSolomon : how do you reconcile this w your push for battle hawks?
ReplyDeletei really don't think i need to. the push for battle hawks is completely mythical and its my view of what the Marine Corps needs / should have been built. i would still make that push if i were in the Commandant's chair but be that as it may, the AH-1Z is the best of breed.
Deletewhat concerns me is the proliferation of MANPADS and advanced anti-air systems on the modern battlefield. sometimes i don't think lessons were actually learned from previous combat. Army Apaches were chewed up by the Iraqi's but no one talks about it (during the period of convetnional warfare)
The Viper is awsome! IMHO the best attack aircraft flying at this time, has great legs, comes with some awsome firepower, and is flown by the best. Cobras always come to the fight ready for anything. Ive watched them time and time again practice Air to Air combat with Super Hornets, deliver ground fires on target on time, and always push the bird to the fuel limits to support. the Viper is very welcome in the Corps.
ReplyDeleteDUDE! DO YOU EVER ANSWER YOUR FREAKING E-MAIL!!!!! GET BACK AT ME!!!!!
DeleteSuper Cobra's, AH-1Z get some HMLA "Red Dogs" are my choice.
ReplyDeleteIs the Apache harder to maintain than the Cobra? What is the cost to maintain it per flight hour?
ReplyDeleteThe firepower of Mi-28 and Ka-50/52 is by far the greatest. The Russians installed the cannon of BMP-2 the 2A42 on them!!!! We are talking about 30X165mm, against 20X102 of AH-1/AW129 and 30X113B of AH-64/Tiger. We shouldn’t go to the number of ATGM and rockets those two helicopters carry.
ReplyDeleteThere are many arguments for both aircrafts as which has better superior armament and technology but the AH-1Z is a Upgrade aircraft. Most of the Upgrade is to make both the UH-1Y and AH-1Z more compatible with each other. So in the long run the Marine Corp is going to win. This means fewer parts in inventory and less aircraft down waiting for maintenance.
ReplyDeleteAn interesting point is that the AH-1Z and AH-64 provide real competition for each other. Some of their design attributes are very different. The Apache radar aims for over the horizion, the Zulu aims for lookdown. Personally I'd like to see what the British make out of the Apache life extension ....... they clearly would like a SeaApache and already have a classier bird than the US Army.
ReplyDeleteThe compatibility the Marines have built in is sensible, although it is interesting to note that the UK might have had its head screwed on at the time of the Apache order (It didn't they sat used in hangers for years) by going for more powerful engines, radar, and folding wings but usually it saves a short term dime that costs a dollar at a later date.
Opinion3