Sometimes it's not enough to be right. You also have to be smart. This was idiotic. Not only a public relations and diplomatic disaster but the whole mess plays right into the hands of everyone who want to torpedo the peace talks. No doubt the people in Hamas are simply rubbing their hands with glee. This really should have been handled differently.
They went in soft. They were armed yet were repulsed by people with iron bars....they failed to confiscate electronic devices.
Shalyet 13 is suppose to be much better you're right....but instead of following Israeli tradition of saying to hell with being politically correct, they're now a prisoner of it.
Oh well. I love what Israel used to be .... not sure if I like this kinder gentler stance.
If Israel continues down this road they won't exist as a nation. If you lay with lions you will get eaten.
Everybody knew that the people on those boats weren't "peace activists" or pacifists. They are pro-Hamas Islamic radicals. Didn't somebody in the Navy understand that there would be resistance and that we needed a proportionate response? As an Israeli citizen and reserve NCO, I can't for the life of me understand why we always have to go in with guns blazing. Was there no alternative to deadly force?
The obvious purpose of the convoy was not to help the people of Gaza but to de-legitimize and embarrass Israel. Well, a victory party in Gaza would have done that, but this is ten times worse! The propaganda victory we just handed the terrorists is much more effective than any rocket attack. Why do we always have to come out of these confrontations looking like thugs?
The worst thing for me is that this was done by the Navy, supposedly the most professional and competent force we have. It's not like we were surprised; for weeks we knew these clowns were coming. Couldn't we have been better prepared tactically and technically? Now it's too late.
i place the blame FIRMLY at the feet of the politicians.
i've watched the land for peace bullshit and it turns my stomach. i had hope that the new prime minister would be bold and act courageously but he tied the hands of his Navy....they went for minimum casualties instead of maximum effectiveness.
lets face it. no matter what Israel did they would be blamed not only by the rest of the world but by the cultural elite in the US...
with that as a backdrop they should search the ships...locate the contraband and sink or confiscate them....they won't but they should.
unless the politicians get a clue and understand that the very survival of your country is at stake then more trouble is coming. you better hope that we're successful this fall in our elections.
yeah i do. the reason why that many people were killed is because instead of starting out with overwhelming force, you conducted a police action in which you attempted to moderate the violence.
that allowed the enemy to escalate first, causing your forces to suffer unnecessary casualties which also led to your forces having to belatedly escalate.
yeah, its kinder and gentler. remember the raid on Entebbe? maximum violence, maximum force...limited casualties.
i noticed, but i believe that you place the blame at the feet of the wrong people.
its not the Navy that failed. it was the rules of engagement that they were operating under. i 100% sympathize. both Israel and the US military are suffering from a lack of generalship at this time in our history.
those S13 guys are reportedly the hardest in the land. they could have wiped the floor with those so called "aid activist" but they weren't allowed to.
It seems Israel would have been better off letting these ships through...even if images come out that some of those civilians attacked those soldiers, the damage is already done.
Turkey Israeli relations are now once again in the toilet.
i find the Turkey.- Israeli relationship interesting. that's my second biggest gripe with Israel...they'll sell anything to anybody and with the Turks it didn't win them any favors. in the end it didn't win them any favors with the Chinese.
what's going to be good is if the Prime Minister cancels his trip to Washington.
foreign affairs is going to be the second nail in the coffin of the Obama administration. Hillary can try and chart a middle course all she wants but her President is pure lefty....
Ah...finally good news for Israel. i've been watching the video of the S13 Commando getting stabbed over at Military Photos.net
Peace Activist my ass. those were Hamas agitators. i wonder how Israel failed to get proper intel on the reaction of these people?
the more i learn the more i think it was a complete FUCK UP by the politicians, military leadership AND the troops conducting the mission. they violated every rule possible when boarding a ship.
where was the backup for each Commando, why weren't the people huddled, on the deck with their hands zip tied...why search while you have personnel still wandering about the ship.
I'm starting to think our President is some sort of Wilsonian peace time President. I'm already hearing whisper's that this oil spill may be akin to this President's Iranian Hostage Crisis. Moreover, I'm deeply afraid of what the President's response (or lack there of)is going to be when Israel eventually launches a strike on Iran.
In regards to Turkey, Turkey and Brazil were already objecting to sanctions and pushing their own swap deal with Iran. After this I doubt Turkey will be dissuaded. Will the Russians also use this to worm out of their tepid support they have given for sanctions against Iran?
You may be right, foreign policy may be the death of him.
our only hope is that the Republican party gains a ton of seats this Nov...oh and i'm not a Republican, i'm Conservative...but this guy is beyond the Wilsonian model. i don't think we've ever seen anything like him before.
Turkey and Brazil never should have been so bold as to try that type of nonsense but our enemies and wayward friends are feeling emboldened.
i'm asking some of the same questions. these S13 guys are suppose to be the equivalent of our Navy Seals plus a couple of other bad asses rolled into one.
but from the videos that are coming out this was just weird.
i have no idea what they were thinking.
it almost looked like a blackhawk down type incident. rappelling onto a crowded deck with hostiles on it and you're not laying down suppressive fire or even using gas or pepper spray to keep them at bay?
using a helicopter (i couldn't tell what type but it had to be a CH-53 or UH-60) that allows for multiple fastropers and only using one point?
Sometimes it's not enough to be right. You also have to be smart. This was idiotic. Not only a public relations and diplomatic disaster but the whole mess plays right into the hands of everyone who want to torpedo the peace talks. No doubt the people in Hamas are simply rubbing their hands with glee. This really should have been handled differently.
ReplyDeleteNot a good day for us.
They went in soft. They were armed yet were repulsed by people with iron bars....they failed to confiscate electronic devices.
ReplyDeleteShalyet 13 is suppose to be much better you're right....but instead of following Israeli tradition of saying to hell with being politically correct, they're now a prisoner of it.
Oh well. I love what Israel used to be .... not sure if I like this kinder gentler stance.
If Israel continues down this road they won't exist as a nation. If you lay with lions you will get eaten.
ID has a vid where an Israeli soldier gets stabbed in the back by a "Peace activist" -
ReplyDeletehttp://www.informationdissemination.net/2010/05/beware-early-reporting.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+InformationDissemination+%28Information+Dissemination%29
yeah but i'm still trying to find the article where he predicted that their would be trouble....still looking an no joy yet.
ReplyDeleteEverybody knew that the people on those boats weren't "peace activists" or pacifists. They are pro-Hamas Islamic radicals. Didn't somebody in the Navy understand that there would be resistance and that we needed a proportionate response? As an Israeli citizen and reserve NCO, I can't for the life of me understand why we always have to go in with guns blazing. Was there no alternative to deadly force?
ReplyDeleteThe obvious purpose of the convoy was not to help the people of Gaza but to de-legitimize and embarrass Israel. Well, a victory party in Gaza would have done that, but this is ten times worse! The propaganda victory we just handed the terrorists is much more effective than any rocket attack. Why do we always have to come out of these confrontations looking like thugs?
The worst thing for me is that this was done by the Navy, supposedly the most professional and competent force we have. It's not like we were surprised; for weeks we knew these clowns were coming. Couldn't we have been better prepared tactically and technically? Now it's too late.
i place the blame FIRMLY at the feet of the politicians.
ReplyDeletei've watched the land for peace bullshit and it turns my stomach. i had hope that the new prime minister would be bold and act courageously but he tied the hands of his Navy....they went for minimum casualties instead of maximum effectiveness.
lets face it. no matter what Israel did they would be blamed not only by the rest of the world but by the cultural elite in the US...
with that as a backdrop they should search the ships...locate the contraband and sink or confiscate them....they won't but they should.
unless the politicians get a clue and understand that the very survival of your country is at stake then more trouble is coming. you better hope that we're successful this fall in our elections.
"...not sure if I like this kinder gentler stance."
ReplyDeleteGeez, Solomon, we shot and killed 19 people. Is that what you call kind and gentle?
yeah i do. the reason why that many people were killed is because instead of starting out with overwhelming force, you conducted a police action in which you attempted to moderate the violence.
ReplyDeletethat allowed the enemy to escalate first, causing your forces to suffer unnecessary casualties which also led to your forces having to belatedly escalate.
yeah, its kinder and gentler. remember the raid on Entebbe? maximum violence, maximum force...limited casualties.
have you forgotten your own history?
No, I haven't forgotten. If you notice from my comments, I pointed out the lack of tactical competence in the assault.
ReplyDeletei noticed, but i believe that you place the blame at the feet of the wrong people.
ReplyDeleteits not the Navy that failed. it was the rules of engagement that they were operating under. i 100% sympathize. both Israel and the US military are suffering from a lack of generalship at this time in our history.
those S13 guys are reportedly the hardest in the land. they could have wiped the floor with those so called "aid activist" but they weren't allowed to.
It seems Israel would have been better off letting these ships through...even if images come out that some of those civilians attacked those soldiers, the damage is already done.
ReplyDeleteTurkey Israeli relations are now once again in the toilet.
i find the Turkey.- Israeli relationship interesting. that's my second biggest gripe with Israel...they'll sell anything to anybody and with the Turks it didn't win them any favors. in the end it didn't win them any favors with the Chinese.
ReplyDeletewhat's going to be good is if the Prime Minister cancels his trip to Washington.
foreign affairs is going to be the second nail in the coffin of the Obama administration. Hillary can try and chart a middle course all she wants but her President is pure lefty....
According to local news, PM has already cancelled his visit.
ReplyDeleteFerran, BCN.
Ah...finally good news for Israel. i've been watching the video of the S13 Commando getting stabbed over at Military Photos.net
ReplyDeletePeace Activist my ass. those were Hamas agitators. i wonder how Israel failed to get proper intel on the reaction of these people?
the more i learn the more i think it was a complete FUCK UP by the politicians, military leadership AND the troops conducting the mission. they violated every rule possible when boarding a ship.
where was the backup for each Commando, why weren't the people huddled, on the deck with their hands zip tied...why search while you have personnel still wandering about the ship.
S13 fucked up so bad.
I'm starting to think our President is some sort of Wilsonian peace time President. I'm already hearing whisper's that this oil spill may be akin to this President's Iranian Hostage Crisis. Moreover, I'm deeply afraid of what the President's response (or lack there of)is going to be when Israel eventually launches a strike on Iran.
ReplyDeleteIn regards to Turkey, Turkey and Brazil were already objecting to sanctions and pushing their own swap deal with Iran. After this I doubt Turkey will be dissuaded. Will the Russians also use this to worm out of their tepid support they have given for sanctions against Iran?
You may be right, foreign policy may be the death of him.
our only hope is that the Republican party gains a ton of seats this Nov...oh and i'm not a Republican, i'm Conservative...but this guy is beyond the Wilsonian model. i don't think we've ever seen anything like him before.
ReplyDeleteTurkey and Brazil never should have been so bold as to try that type of nonsense but our enemies and wayward friends are feeling emboldened.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU12KW-XyZE
ReplyDeleteToo bad it won't matter in public opinion.
Sorry, military background next to zero:
ReplyDeletecan anyone explain me why they used so few guys and they didn't wait for the ships to reach israeli waters?
Ferran, BCN.
i'm asking some of the same questions. these S13 guys are suppose to be the equivalent of our Navy Seals plus a couple of other bad asses rolled into one.
ReplyDeletebut from the videos that are coming out this was just weird.
i have no idea what they were thinking.
it almost looked like a blackhawk down type incident. rappelling onto a crowded deck with hostiles on it and you're not laying down suppressive fire or even using gas or pepper spray to keep them at bay?
using a helicopter (i couldn't tell what type but it had to be a CH-53 or UH-60) that allows for multiple fastropers and only using one point?
AMAZING!