Friday, May 28, 2010
SecDef's Message reveals the truth on DADT.
The SecDef felt the need to talk to the troops about Congressional action on Don't Ask, Don't Tell. The very fact that he felt a need to make this statement tells anyone watching everything they need to know about this issue.
This isn't going to be as easy as the "intellectual" elite would have many believe. Have no doubt. This will cause trauma to an already over extended military. Careers will be lost and in the case of certain military units---assaults will occur. Proponents of the repeal of the current policy have obviously never served in a line unit.
Assaults will occur against suspected homosexuals--either in garrison or out in the field.
While homosexuality is fashionable and well accepted in the major cities of our nation, it isn't in the heartland of our nation. Many of the current and future members of our military are from this area.
The current policy makes sexual preference a non factor. To change that policy will only bring trouble....but that's my opinion.
UPDATE.
Think Defence and Joe have put up a spirited defense of the actions of the Congress in this matter. I still disagree. It would seem that the majority of military bloggers do too. I believe that is because (in the case of the bloggers) they're too close to the centers of power and are too urban in their beliefs. It might also be because they are further away from the men and women that make the military work...instead they live and converse with those in the Pentagon and think tanks.
That limited a view can tilt ones thinking. I can assure you that in the heartland, this is a very contentious subject. I can also assure you that in the Marine Corps this is a very contentious subject. My main question is this. Why do this in the middle of two wars, with one going badly? Now is NOT the time. And if you have the audacity to ask me when, then my response would be later....much later.
UPDATE 2.
Jon commented and gave an article from Danny Kaplan. Its a good thing to know a bit about authors of articles. The guy is basically a gay rights activist. Read more about him here...at his site.
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Did you mean to write this
ReplyDelete"People will get their asses handed to them"
Sorry, shouldn't joke about a serious issue but change is always difficult
wow, i need to phrase that better.
ReplyDeletesorry i must disagree, while i think it will take time to accept people who are openly homosexual most of the front line people are quite young, and more tolerant (although not completely) of homosexuals in the military. Also it does not homosexuality a non-factor, if it was a non-factor you wouldnt be kicked out when you are found out to be homosexual, or having an investigation if someone accuses you.
ReplyDeleteThis is similar to racial integration after WWII, it will be painful, and it will cause stress but the military in the end will be stronger for it and as successive generations are in units with sexual minorities their status as an excluded group will diminish.
i totally disagree. first its an insult to blacks to say that the integration of homosexuals is the same. you can't hide the fact that you're black and for many its been a career detriment. same goes for women. you can't hide it...when i say hide it i mean that its obvious to everyone when you walk into a room.
ReplyDeletesexuality in the best of circumstances is a nonissue. i have never asked someone if they're straight. i've never asked anyone if they're gay.
AND YOU CAN'T TELL IF A PERSON IS STRAIGHT OR GAY WHEN THEY WALK INTO A ROOM. they have to make it an issue.
WHAT THAT MEANS IS THAT THEY HAVE AN ISSUE WITH THEIR SEXUALITY, NOT ME. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU DON'T TELL ME!
Its not about people "telling" anyone they are gay, in many instances they are outed. They are spotted in civilian areas on dates or living with a partner, they are excluded benefits of living on base with a partner for fear of recrimination, and many lose their careers over this. I think the resistance is coming from the top brass, the lower ranks are less concerned with this. I would love a world where sexuality doesn't matter, and to much of the younger generation it doesn't, but punishment isn't always about people announcing their sexual orientation but being outed and having their careers unfairly ended by that.
ReplyDeletesorry Joe but that's another misnomer...'the upper brass'....have you served in a line unit.
ReplyDeleteits BARBARIC. if you want to see survival of the fittest then join a Marine Infantry Company. the average 19 year old that doesn't care is from NY city.
The Marine Corps gets recruits from there but they mostly get them from the South and the Midwest.
19 year olds in those parts of the country do care. and care alot.
if it was so simple then the SecDef wouldn't have made this statement today.
did you notice that he talked about how repeal would affect RECRUITING AND RETENTION~~!
this is a mine field and liberals are fooling themselves if they think otherwise.
Things change though Solomon and change is never easy.
ReplyDeleteLook at other armies in the world, its hasn't done any harm to to British Army or Royal Marines, French, Dutch, Scandinavian etc. All of them are in Afghanistan doing the hard yards, not giving a shit whether their fellows are gay or not.
I remember the first time women were allowed in previously male only units, yes there were issues but now its just the norm
I don't know enough about US forces to comment, but I would imagine there will be problems but they will eventually die down.
In a few years time you will look back and wonder what the fuss was all about.
not to get political but the british military has lost a step or two since its become liberalized.
ReplyDeleteoh and don't fool yourself, the integration of women isn't over and it hasn't been easy.
if it was a no brainer then why do it before the study is over?
and I have to ask...if its no problem for the troops then why this video....PEOPLE LOOK AT THE US AND ONLY SEE THE EAST AND WEST COAST....
The British Army's problems are many but none of them are caused by homosexuals.
ReplyDeleteI have served with some women who were completely useless, but then I have also served with men who were likewise, oxygen thieves!
Nothing is easy, perhaps Europeans have a different outlook and what works for us doesn't work for you.
On a lighter note, who said this and what navy was he talking about
Don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash.
I've only worked with 45 Commando and an Airborne Brigade (I think they were a brigade, maybe a battalion...anyway they wore red berets) and the first time both were barbarians...mean, nasty, sneaky and extremely professional...the second time the Airborne guys were a little more civilized...a bit more gentle. I didn't like it and commented that they seemed "softer"....let me put it like this...alot was said and it was about the social experimentation and liberalization that had occurred in their force. nuff said on that.
ReplyDeleteas far as the quote...i don't know...who said it?
Winston Churchill, First Sea Lord
ReplyDeleteI am not a softie elite liberal but I think in a few years time, this will be a non issue
if this goes thru then we'll (the US) go the way of the Roman's...an empire no more.
ReplyDeleteLook Solomon, this is something you and others will simply have to get used to, heartland or no. Even the Marines. We have gays who serve openly in the Israel Defense Forces and it's really no big deal. See the article I sent you.
ReplyDeleteJust like with racial integration, the military will obey orders, say "Yes, Sir!" and carry on. If there are assaults, the perpetrators will go to jail.
It not like racial integration. I can't tell someones sexuality when they walk in the room.
ReplyDeleteI've noticed that the Israeli Army isn't a hard as it used to be. Is this why?
Oh and if you've served in an Infantry Unit then you know that when the wall of silence goes up, you're not going to break it.
People will get fucked up. Careers will be ruined...and why? The system that we have works. I checked to make sure...you can't be 'outed' if you're off duty or on leave. That's not enough evidence for the command to start an investigation.
What we have works.
No need to modify it.
What we have "works"? i dont see how it works. does it work for the people that dont like gays in the military yes, but what about those brave and honorable people who serve their country who are gay? you are essentially saying they are not allowed the honor to serve their country in uniform. As i said many instances they dont "tell" anyone but are outed by gay activists.
ReplyDeleteFirst i would say that i would need to look at the data but there are many people from many parts of the country that serve. Also in the mid-west and country, it may be more of an issue, but becoming less of an issue. Also the social psychology shows that knowing someone who is of a different group is one of the strongest predictors of acceptance.
No i can not say i have served, i would have liked to but being born with a physical disability and leaving me in a wheelchair did not allow me to, my father has served 23 years and my mother 9, and they are both mid-western conservative, and i think in the end they believe once bullets start flying its who has your back, not who you are sleeping with.
Millions serve and many have died in 200+ years to defend the flag, the symbol of freedom this country gives, but what is freedom if we ALL are not free? if you say there will be assaults and other things, is this not a matter of discipline, is the military that undisciplined that when given an order they dont carry it out. The military should not bring their own prejudices and politics into it, if you can serve and you are good at your job, then grab a weapon and stand at post, if not get out.
Solomon, just for the record, I don't condone or disagree with how it is being handled, I don't know enough.
ReplyDeleteBut can give a UK point of view and that is, it is a bit of a non issue. I think to some degree it is an age thing as well.
I am also far from the centre of power as you put, I do the whole blogging thing for fun!!
Must admit I am a city boy though
"People will get fucked up. Careers will be ruined...and why?"
ReplyDeleteBecause gays have the same right to serve their country as straights, that's why.
Yes it will be awkward and perhaps difficult at first. If the American military is truly as disciplined as it claims to be than it will make this work.
let me try this then....
ReplyDeletewow..you guys are right. i'm just wrong. i don't know the Marines. i have no idea about military life. not that shit you see on tv but the real thing. i have no idea about how units operate and all the stuff that goes on between enlisted that SNCO's never hear about or between SNCO's that officers never hear about...i know nothing about that so you guys are right.
its bullshit but if it makes you feel better then ok.
Since women in the British military was brought up I thought I would add this.
ReplyDeleteAs pregnancies on the front line soar, MoD tells women soldiers: Carry a condom
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1278791/As-pregnancies-frontline-soar-MoD-tells-women-soldiers-Carry-condom.html
you hit on something Drake1.
ReplyDeletewomen haven't been fully or successfully integrated into the US military. at least not yet and the units where they have been fully integrated are more corporate than military.