The article on Strategy Page is an interesting read.
I wondered what APA had been up to and now I know. This article is straight out of the playbook.F-15SE Sneaking Up On the F-35
July 25, 2010: For over a year now, F-15 manufacturer Boeing has been offering a "stealthy" aircraft called the F-15SE (Silent Eagle). The target market is nations that want some stealth, but do not want to pay the high price of the F-35. The F-15SE is an F-15E with better electronics (radar and countermeasures) and an airframe tweaked to make the aircraft harder for radar to detect. A CWB (Conformal Weapons Bay) carried beneath the body of the aircraft contains two internal weapons bays. Each bay can carry two missiles or smart bombs. Each of the four hard points in the CWD can carry two smaller SDB (Small Diameter Bombs). While not as stealthy as the F-22, the F-15SE claims to be as stealthy as the F-35, which costs 40 percent more. Another option is to have existing F-15Es rebuilt to F-15SE standards, at less than half the cost of a new F-15SE. Boeing has demonstrated the stealthiness to serious customers, and the F-15SE does indeed make it much more difficult for radars to spot it. Some foreign F-15E users have expressed an interest, especially as the cost of the F-35 keeps going up, with no end in sight for the increases. .
First the F-35's price has been going down and the Air Force and Lockheed Martin have both stated that it will crush CBO's estimate.
Next, I can't find one customer for the F-15SE...a new build F-15 is over 100 million dollars...not exactly cheap.
Canada has just signed on to buy 65, Israel is supposedly on the verge and Turkey has agreed to buy 120, not the 100 originally programed.
Sneaking up on the F-35? Hardly, more like getting run out of the sky is the ticket.
The only buyer I know of that mentioned interest in the F-15SE was Israel- we know how that one went.
ReplyDeleteI should mention that Sweetman reported that Boeing is offering a stealthy Hornet, so you know what is coming next. This could be a factor in an Australian F-35 purchase, but you likely know better than me.
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/farnborough/?plckController=Blog&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&newspaperUserId=af81e61b-7188-4a72-8f39-d3869b7980c2&plckPostId=Blog%3aaf81e61b-7188-4a72-8f39-d3869b7980c2Post%3afeb0685f-4b71-457a-8b95-db6887068567&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest
If that thing is as stealthy as the F-35 I'll throw away all my books and computer programs on aircraft stealth.
ReplyDeleteOK, you can probably find one angle in space where the signature is better, but the overall signature just gotta be lower on the F-35, or LM have done a terrible job on the design.
And I really really doubt that.
This looks like marketing from Boeing, and I suppose they are allowed to bend the truth a little, but this claim is really a bit far out, as far as my experience tell me.
I can be wrong, but until I see any evidence of this claim, it will be bogus in my mind.
Best Regards
/RAF
IMHO,
ReplyDeleteThe best chance the SE version of the F-15 has is upgrades for extant F-15 users in coming years. The F-15 already costs more than an F-35 without any of the development work that the SE needs and even if a customer were to consider it, the SE is at LEAST as far away as the F-35 from operational service.
All that Boeing has achieved so far is 2x flight tests on an adapted FAST pack, designed to carry a bit of fuel and an AMRAAM missile. The ability to launch or even carry an air to surface weapon or a second AMRAAM missile internally has not yet been developed as far as I can tell and most definitely not demonstrated.
Nor are the "canted tails" that add so much to the LO properties of the SE. The reason is because of the cost. Designing and testing new LO canted tails is going to be expensive.
Without a customer, I cannot see Boeing do it. If South Korea signs up, then they'll probably get done. If not, then I can't see much future for the SE as a whole aircraft model.
The advanced F-15 variants (AESA radars, integrated EW and data-link systems, advanced avionics and weapons, plus the excellent range and performance of the base F-15 aeroshell) stack up well for the types of regional "penis measuring" contests we see in the Asian theatre, ie: (advanced F-15 v latest SU-XX Sukhoi variants) and unless SU-35's start proliferating (which is less than assured, whatever Goon might say) then I'd suggest that existing users will only gradually update their F-15's over time.
Components of the SE program might make their way into Block upgrade projects, but replacing the tails will be too costly for most with not enough return to bother.
Existing F-15 users will also need to replace F-16/F-2 type fighters in coming years and the F-35 is tailor-made for that requirement, plus it adds VLO technology into the force structures of these users, offering extensive opportunities for tactical employment modes.
Such a force can the provide legacy "spear carrier" jets with long range, high-power radar, missiles and EW capability, supporting full VLO jets, sneaking around the battlespace, picking off high value targets, whether airborne or surface targets, in precisely the same fashion that the US plans to use it's "Golden Eagle" and Block II+ Super Hornet fleets in future years.
This capability is one reason why F-35 has such a great future and legacy jets do not. As Italy has already shown, there is a greater "bang for your buck" to be had for a force that already operates a reasonably large and advanced legacy jet force, by focusing on acquisition of F-35 in these budget constrained times, than simply acquiring new 4th Gen aircraft.
You simply get more of what you already have by acquiring 4th Gen fighters, when you could have the F-35. The F-35 opens up so many other opportunities, whilst complimenting legacy aircraft very well, that it really does "blow the opposition out of the water" purely in terms of operational capability.
For Australia, I sincerely hope we maintain our Super Hornets in-service, even once we acquire F-35, for these very reasons.
The SE by comparison, simply doesn't offer enough as a whole, IMHO. There is no user on Earth that employs the F-15 as it's sole combat aircraft and this is for a very good reason. It's expensive to buy and to operate. For all these reasons, I don't see the SE doing much on the fighter market.
Cheers,
AD