Politics are personal. I try and stay away from the discussion but this Mosque issue is becoming more than a bit painful. I've tried to be patient, I've tried to be even handed but as usual the "elite" inside the Beltway (including the President and those "think tankers" that blog about military issues) are on the outside looking in of American public opinion.
For once Bill Kristol and I agree...while I think that his thinking on military matters is misguided...while I think that his thinking on democratizing the Middle East is a horrible joke that has helped get us into bad situations...this time he's right.
Read it here.
i understand and can understand why the people dont want the mosque, but i do think it should be allowed to be built. one of the purposes of our constitution was to allow for protection of minorities, now if this group building it had any connection with known terror groups they should be investigated, but lower Manhattan should not pick and choose based on religion. The government doesn't allow for a religious test for public officials, it shouldn't do so on who gets to build on private property with their own money. the reason the two towers are behind schedule is bureaucratic BS and delays on whether or not to create a memorial or not and things like that. If they want to stop the building of the mosque they should make all of Manhattan religion free, otherwise there is no legal justification for denial, if so they would be thrashed in court.
ReplyDeleteits not about in the beltway elitism, its about the principals of the constitution, and freedom of religion, even one thats been perverted to kill tens of thousands around the world is allowed to practice freely in our nation.
If Kristol is right, then please present the logical, unemotional argument for not allowing the mosque at ground zero. To me I only see logic vs emotion: On the one hand, we have the logical argument that the constitution does not allow our government to discriminate on the basis of religion. On the other hand, we have an emotional argument that a mosque should not be built at ground zero because it is somehow offensive.
ReplyDeleteAgain, If Obama is mischaracterizing the arguments of those who oppose the mosque, show me how. Neither he nor you have presented a logical argument for not allowing the mosque. You have simply asserted that it is not simply an emotional sentiment without presenting any unemotional argument or justification.
Edit: when I said neither he nor you have presented teh logical argument opposing the mosque, I was referring to Kristol, not Obama. As in, neither Kristol nor you have presented the logical argument against the mosque. Here is the heart of Kirstol's argument:
ReplyDelete"But Americans aren't traumatized. 9/11 was an attack on America, to which Americans have responded firmly, maturely, and appropriately. Part of our sensible and healthy reaction is that there shouldn't be a 13-story mosque and Islamic community center next to Ground Zero. But Obama doesn't feel he even has to engage the arguments against the mosque--because he regards his fellow citizens as emotionally traumatized victims, not citizens who might have a reasonable point of view."
Again, Kirstol refers to "the arguments" without enumerating them. He simply asserts that "there shouldn't be a 13-story mosque and Islamic community center next to Ground Zero" without explaining WHY he feels that way. If you want to prove that you don't have a purely emotional argument, lay out the logic. Otherwise, people will continue to assume that it is based on emotions, prejudices and intolerance.
Matthew, the funny thing is that your entire post drips of emotion.
ReplyDeleteno one is denying Muslims the right to a mosque, all that's being asked is that it be built elsewhere.
what's emotional about that? its respect, not hate and if you and the muslim community can't see that then oh well!
No, Matthew is right, Kirstol is answering a logical argument with an emotional one. I'd like to see Kirstol provide some actual reasons other than "there shouldnt". Thats the argument of a 6 year old. And before you start calling me a muslim lover know that I agree with Kirstol that there shouldn't be a Muslim community center at Ground Zero but I'd like to see some actual reasons from Kirstol.
ReplyDeleteUnless you live in NYC why do you care?
ReplyDeletebecause its my country.
ReplyDeletepeople stick their noses into the Gulf Oil Spill that didn't live there...all kinds of environmentalist decided that a stoppage to oil exploration should be instituted. guess what, that decision is going to cost over 10,000 jobs. everyone in America should care about the stupidity of that decision.
the border with Mexico has people sticking their noses into because its our country. why shouldn't everyone be concerned that more and more people that are "other than Mexicans" able to enter our country without fear of a law enforcement response?
yep, if it happens in the borders of the US, then as a US citizen its my business.