Monday, December 27, 2010
Pictorial...McDonnell Douglas JAST
Below are photos of the McDonnell Douglas JAST concept, I got interested in it because in the ongoing debate about the 'new' Chinese stealth fighter (I'm of the opinion that its just a photoshop of the SU-47, TA-50 and perhaps alot of imagination) Sweetman referenced this airplane as perhaps being a design influence. Images via JSF.mil
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I was with Northrop at the time this was proposed and know quite a few people involved in the proposal. This design approach had two things going against it compared to the F-35. First, there were warnings not to use the V-tail going in. There were Navy factions that did not believe we could get enough controllability out it. This was kind of minor compared to the STOVL lift version. The Marines were adamant on a single engine solution for acquisition and support cost consideratition. BTW: This approach is very similar to the YAK approach. Let us hope our Red Chinese ARE following this design line of thought.
ReplyDeleteso you do believe that the photo is of an actual fighter and not photoshopped?
ReplyDeleteNo opinion. As I'm pretty handy with Photoshop myself, it wouldn't surprise me either way.
ReplyDeleteI'm a novice on this subject, but saw a Yak-41/141 at a airshow in Ukraine years ago. Didn't Lock-Mart or another buy the design from the Russians? As a Infantry man, I still do not see the need for any stealth features on a CAS aircraft. My boys are ALWAYS much more in favor of AH-1s/AH-64s showing up instead AV-8s or any other fast movers. Seem to me a American-made-improved YAK-141 would be everything the USMC needs without the worry of the JSFs limitations and cost. More info in on the YAK please.
ReplyDeleteFlight Global is confirming that it's real. First the Russians, now the Chinese. We need more F-22's pronto!
ReplyDeleteIt would be interesting to know more about this design, I hope that someone involved in the design can write a book about it. I like it because it looks more like a fighter than F-35 and F-32 and (if my memory serves me rigth) It used a pretty standard F-119 engine wich would have lowered the costs for the airplane. It was a petty that they could not get their gas driven lift fan to work, and had to divert to a lift engine.
ReplyDeleteStill, fun to dream.
Best Regards
/RAF
RE: Didn't Lock-Mart or another buy the design from the Russians?
ReplyDeleteWhile the rotating interconnected duct idea for an exhaust was (I believe) first flown on a Yakolev, the critical tech for the F-35 propulsion is all Western, and the overarching concept was conceived by a LockMart engineer. Yakolev was actually put on contract to do do engineering and test evaluation work on LM's early concept development. Seems like I'm running into this "Russian Design" myth more and more. Like we needed any more mythology around the F-35 and its missions. Reminds me of the Cold War era when frequently the Soviets were seen as taking claim for 'inventing' something that had been done elsewhere (often because we needed better interpreters).
Hey SMSgt, Just wondering. I guess my question was what was wrong with the Yak? It flew a great display at the airshow and its published specs had me wondering. My real question is does a MAGTF really need all the crapola(maint,supply chain,cost) that comes with the F-35. Will it be like the V-22? too valueble to risk anywhere near the FLOT. If something simpler was available why not. Time will tell. Officers who thought they would fly the F-35 are starting to retire.
ReplyDeleteRE: What was wrong with the Yak [41/141]..?
ReplyDeleteAsssuming the question is as it relates to a JSF and its mission. First, the Yak was pretty much a one trick pony: a fleet interceptor, and the design was not very conducive to up-scaling. Making it larger to carry the increased payload and systems needed for a multirole fighter would have been near impossible, and certainly impractical: can you imagine the hot melt and gas re-ingestion problem making F-35 thrust using all hot thrust? The Yak may have had some interesting high AoA behaviors as well – the ‘tell’ is the larger LEX’s on the proposed production version. Finally, Russia was never going to make a YAK low observable. I find it interesting how some perceive ‘stealth’ as an ‘add on’ (like power windows or something that is ‘nice’ but you can do without) – as if LO wasn’t the dominant consideration in all air warfare. Radar came of age as a dominant factor during the Battle of Britain and reigned for 50 years. LO came into its own as the dominant factor ~1990 (1991 if you exclude Operation Just Cause) and has remained so for 20 years, yet is still thought of as some new-fangled ‘option’. If we knew we would only face Turd-world opponents without radars in the future, then perhaps we could forget LO: until then, it needs to come ‘standard’.
I should also add that we (the US) never bought a weapon that was too precious to use. I've heard the same charge made against the B-1, the B-2, the V-22, and now the F-22.
ReplyDelete