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| via First People-Wolves |
I don't know your politics on an armed citizenry. But you can't tell me that this tragic story couldn't have been cut short if just one of those victims was armed, trained and fought back.
My only surprise in this is that we don't see even more lunacy of this type. via CNN.
(CNN) -- A New York man fatally stabbed three people, slashed at least five others, hit and killed one man with a car and hijacked two vehicles before being wrestled to the ground early Saturday while trying to break into the cab of a subway car, police said.Read the whole thing here. Please comment, I want your opinions--especially from those readers in the East and West Coasts of the US and those in Europe.
Maksim Gelman, who is unemployed and known to authorities mostly as a graffiti artist, was arrested aboard a northbound train in Manhattan around 9 a.m. Saturday, about 28 hours after he allegedly began a spree that spanned three New York City boroughs, Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said.
"It's so horrendous and bizarre," Kelly told reporters Saturday afternoon. "We have no reason that we can give you as to why he did this."
i think the thing is "trained", when faced with a difficult situation of their life being threatened someone may not have the wherewithal to draw their weapon and defend themselves or others and they may even drop the weapon or have it taken from them and that person that only has a knife now has a weapon. its one thing to have the right to own a weapon will people be prepared to use it when the time is right. we train law enforcement and military for years for the psychological ability to take a life, most people think just by picking up a weapon it gives them the ability but when the time comes, i have serious doubts.
ReplyDeleteJoe
i disagree Joe.
ReplyDeletei'm going to make this comment and its about the situation you're in. if its out of line then i'll gladly apologize and take it down.
you're unfortunately in a wheelchair. my heart goes out to you for having to deal with that. but i also know that whereas i can easily retreat from certain situations, you don't have that ability.
another thing i know is that human physiology gives advantages to some people that others don't have.
i work out daily, have a 10% body fat, i'm 6'2.5 inches tall and weigh 265.
i'm stronger than most people i know...alot of criminals won't head my way because of size alone.
my girlfriend doesn't have that advantage.
lastly when i talk about trained, i'm talking about mostly shoot or don't shoot scenarios as well as actual gunfighting techniques.
most people instinctively fight for their live.
well first soloman i have done quite well for myself so no need for pity :).
ReplyDeletewhat i am saying though is this is a difference between fight or flight, most people wont stand and fight given a stressful situation. i am not talking about training about how to use the weapon, point and shoot and you dont need infantry tactics to defend oneself but will a person when confronted with a sudden situation stand and fight without the training to tell them to. i am skeptical that just having a weapon when bullets start flying someone who has never been in that situation will run and not fire back. If you listen to law enforcement or others that get into firefights many say they dont think about whats happening and just fall back on their training, what happens when they have no training to fall back on?
hey Joe.
ReplyDeletei save my pity for the weak.
you're not weak...therefore no pity...;)
then instinct for survival takes over if there is no training...unless its been beaten out of someone by politically correct thinking which tells men in society to depend on another man for their protection.
have you ever watched the Chris Matthews show? he's one of those guys that if confronted with anything out of the ordinary would melt like snow on a hot July Louisiana day.
i just don't believe in that thinking or lifestyle. by the way, you're a west coaster aren't you?
ummm....i am not sure what i am :D
ReplyDeletei was born in germany to US Army parents, my parents were transferred to Ft. Gordon to allow me to get medical care here (my dad was an officer, my mom not so my dad stayed in and my mom got out), lived in augusta til i was 12, then moved to oklahoma until i graduated undergrad, did my masters for two years at teachers college, columbia university in manhattan and moved to seattle to do my PhD which i am in my third year, i do hope to move back.
BTW if we are comparing toughness i was born with a genetic disability that makes my bones brittle, i have had 47 broken bones, 6 surgeries, multiple other injuries, including a head injury which made me hospitalized for 3 days which i didnt even realize the severity for 6 days (long story of a dumbass ER doc), and i am 33" tall and lived independently since undergrad (when i turned 19) :), i think i get a few brownie points! ;)
wow. impressive and yeah you're a whole lot tougher than i am...mentally and physically.
ReplyDeleteso yeah you don't get my pity, but my admiration for what you've overcome.
whats the phd in?
my PhD is going to be in measurement, research design and statistics in educational psychology, i want to use statistical methods to analyze policy data to inform on how policy is made and maintained (and changed if neccessary) not more dumbass "this might work" from politicians, lets use actual data to make decisions, but unfortunately that seems like a dream.
ReplyDeleteand honestly i dont think its about toughness, people say they are tougher than me, i disagree, i think people do what they need to, while i may disagree what happens in a split second decision when it comes to survival in the long run, humans have shown great capacity for adaptation, no matter the adverse conditions.
Cheers! :)
by the way, did you see the declaration of independence reading beofre the superbowl? they had a line from a poem at the end, the entire fourth stanza is great, was written for WWI British soldiers but very generalizable:
ReplyDeleteLaurence Binyon's poem "For the Fallen"
They went with songs to the battle, they were young.
Straight of limb, true of eyes, steady and aglow.
They were staunch to the end against odds uncounted, They fell with their faces to the foe.
They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning,
We will remember them.
full poem is here
ReplyDeletehttp://www.firstworldwar.com/poetsandprose/binyon.htm
There are two sides to this coin Sol.
ReplyDeleteOne could easily argue this is an excellent case for proving that citizens shouldnt be allowed access to firearms. His spree could have been significantly worse had he been carrying a firearm.
really?
ReplyDeletei don't see how. this animal created havoc over the course of a day and a half.
he should have been put down like the animal he is.
no mercy for this guy.
First I would assume that if you are allowed to carry a firearm you would make it your priority to at least get some rudimentary defensive shooting skill. I a firm believer in the value of education, no matter how short the course might be. If you carry, be responsible and know hot to use it. In Switzerland (where they just tried to take our gun ownership down the drain and failed) carry permits are very hard to get, they not only require a course covering legal information, but also a justifiable need of why you need to carry. In most cases it is never issued to civilian. I know a few guys from the security world that have shared their opinions of how the carry system work locally. The rules are very tough so there is always a chance that even in the case of self-defense you will get bent over and get a jail sentence, but.. you are alive, and that what really matter in the end.
ReplyDeleteI think if you compare this event to any mass shooting the numbers and timings will pretty damningly indicate that the availability of firearms dramatically increases the number of casualties in any incident, and over a horter period, than when the perpotrator is armed with but a knife. Irrespective of the presence of armed defendents.
ReplyDeleteTake the 12 dead in 10 minutes at Fort Hood, compared to the 4 dead in one and a half days in this incident for example. And that event took place in the midst of countless highly armed and well trained men and women.
Certainly Nidal was stopped by a firearm equipped individual after 10minutes, but in those 10 minutes he killed three times as many as this man did in 36 hours.