Quick follow up to my first post. Is dedicated CSAR a thing of the past?
Yes....at least as the USAF conducts it.
USAF CSAR is still based on the Vietnam model. They use PJ's operating in pairs (I've heard up to 6 now) to rescue a downed pilot. Even with up to 6 highly trained men, they'll face one unfortunate fact.
They'll be savagely out gunned.
Just as the N. Vietnamese soon learned that they could use injured pilots to draw in vulnerable aircraft for easy kills, so too do our current enemies (this explains the actions taken by AV-8B pilots in dropping bombs upon request of the downed pilots when they saw approaching crowds...think Black Hawk Down).
Loren Thompson said it best in his article today...
In other words, a commitment to doing search and rescue the old way led the service to overlook the much greater performance of the V-22, which might arguably have made it the most cost-effective airframe for the mission.I recommend you read the entire article but Thompson failed to go far enough. The Air Force erred in not keeping CSAR inside the Special Ops umbrella. Unless its properly resourced and staffed (and I'm talking available platoons of gunfighters) then it just won't work in the 22nd Century.
The out-gunned problem was recognized in Vietnam according to John Plaster's book "S.O.G.". When they were available a SOG team might be dropped by helicopter as close as possible to the pilot. They had the firepower, along with the Sandys, to make it a fighting chance to get the pilot out.
ReplyDeleteBecause SOG was top secret the operations never made it into the history books until now.
i'll have to pick it up over the weekend. i did know that the PJ's started operating in larger groups but i didn't know they started picking up platoons to work with them.
ReplyDeleteI don't think it was platoon, just a squad. usually I think they were 2 Americans and the rest Nungs, Hmong, etc. According to Plaster, when they made contact the drill was for the point man to empty his rifle into the ambush and then retreat. The next guy did the same and so on. Thirty seconds of fire kept the NVA's heads down long enough for them to break contact and start to run.
ReplyDeleteI think the practical aspect of the matter is why jump in 2-4 PJ's so they can hole up with a critically injured pilot. To stabilize him and await rescue when you can land say a platoon of marines with a weapons platoon attachments and a team of corps men to stabilize the pilot enough to medivac him out the faster osprey to the state of the art hospitals in LHD's.
ReplyDeleteIf any enemy unit was to make a move to the crash site that Marine Platoon with attachments and CAS from F35,s and Cobra Gunships can defend any LZ in time to get a pilot out then Evac out under the cover of CAS. Not to mention the crash plane could be properly demoed so it doesn't end up in a Chinease factory getting reversed engineered.
Back in the 1960's it would have been a huge fiasco to launch a TRAP like mission.
Two-four PJ's just doesn't hack it anymore, with vehicles like the MV-22, we're going deeper and further into enemy held territory. No matter how highly trained a PJ is, 2 squads of Marines probably have a better chance of survival and saving the downed pilot. I did not know the USAF PJ is not under the SOCOM umbrella, that does seem like a mistake to me, because half the battle in the 21st century is logistics, you have to be there to make a difference. Maybe the USAF should double their efforts on the CV-22...
ReplyDeleteYou're missing the point - even with todays MV-22s and (future) F-35Bs you may still not have enough overmatch to cross the beach and rescue a downed and wounded crew.
ReplyDeleteSometimes time is of the essence, and you need to get medical aid forward NOW.
That's where PJ's come in. They jump in, stabilize the wounded and prepare for evac.
They don't fight their way in, they go in quick and preferably quiet - they are not SOF, Rangers or SEALs, they're specialized medics.
my point on this Marcase is that thinking is a thing of the past.
ReplyDeletesending in 4 guys to rescue a downed airmen is to have one injured pilots and if you're lucky 5 POWs.
if you're not lucky then you have a Black Hawk Down scenario with alot of people asking why would you do something like that.
remember the outposts in Afghanistan that were over run? think how easy it would be to over run 4 pararescue men! you could do it with a squad of men. you could get them so close to the PJ's and their pilot that every bomb would either be danger close or you couldn't drop it.
and if you think that you can sneak in to rescue a downed airplane these days then you're enjoying something either very alcoholic or visiting Amsterdam.
every enemy soldier and their brother will be on their way to the crash site.