well i am wondering are these the military procured and maybe now doesnt want (good for iraq and not afghanistan)? also since its immigration it can help with the very rough terrain on the US mexican border, also with protecting the people inside incase the cartels open fire (those bastards are becomnig more aggressive, almost a warzone in its own right). oh well just theories.
well let me tell you. in certain circles of the internet this is being looked at with great alarm.
i remember that the Marine Corps bought 60 of them so my assumption is that they were transfered to DHS....but my question remains...why would they need full blown MRAPs!
it the danger is small arms on the border then they've been lying to the American people.
if its some other domestic terror threat then again, they've been lying to us.
well i do know that vcross border violence is a problem. the ATF is having problems now with a botched effort to track weapons, alot of weapons used by the cartels are sold in the US.
we should quit this bullshit of having civilians on the border, create some light infantry units, give an exception in Posse Comitatus and deploy military units to control the border. regular rules of engagement apply, do not fire until fired upon then kill the bastards.
Sol, police style tactical teams require armour for protected recovery operations and for breaching operations. You can't just crash soft skin vehicles into houses/buildings if you need to breach in a hurry but you can sometimes with armour...
If someone is bleeding out and your team needs to go in, they can't be expected to unduly risk their own lives just because some see the use of "armour" in a civilian setting as "scary".
Qld police's SERT (Special Emergency Response Team) just received it's first armoured vehicle for this very purpose. Can't have even an elite tactical team going in unprotected in scenarios where military grade weapons are employed and there's all too many of these types of incidents these days...
Here's the footage of SERT's vehicle. The show is a bit gay but the vehicle is a pretty cool capability.
well i can't speak for Australia but in the US the militarization of our police forces is an issue.
a big issue.
the problem here is that the police use infantry tactics against people that pose no threat.
on a side note i would eat a SWAT team alive if they tried to stack at my door...the only pie they would slice is the ass pie i handed back to them as they beat a hasty retreat...but i digress.
against military trained individuals that are actively resisting then i can see it but in the photos above those vehicles belong to our Federal government. not cities SWAT teams....to the Feds that are rarely involved in those type situations.
it seems like overkill to me. massive overkill.
but on a side note that vehicle that you all bought is a BEARCAT.
not an MRAP but definitely an armored vehicle. but that leads to a question for you.
how would you feel if your police were using Thales Bushmasters in this role?
While everyone is talking about the DHS, did you know that a couple weeks ago the Department Of Education's SWAT team broke onto a guys home, because of unpaid student loans. And it turned out they got the wrong house.
helm, it wasnt because of bad student loans, that was because of a fraud investigation as well, the defaulted student loans were not the reason swat was ordered in.
I wouldn't have any great problem with our tactical teams using a Bushmaster IMV. I'm afraid I don't really get what difference the vehicle itself makes really? I remember LAPD used to use an M113 back in the day and if Bushmasters were cheaper, our blokes may well have ended up with one.
It may have even helped with their covertness a bit because you can see Army Bushmaster IMV's driving on the streets of Brisbane all the time (one of our biggest Army bases - Gallipoli Barracks Enoggera, has just about the biggest alotment of Bushmasters in Australia).
Those blokes we put in harms way deserve protection from fire every bit as much as the infantry we send overseas. I find it a curious case that it seems to be quite okay to send armour overseas for use against others, but your domestic law enforcement agencies which are facing military level threats in many of their operations, shouldn't be equally as well protected?
I remember reading many years back, the Branch Dividians had more than 100 military grade rifles (AK-47's and AR-15's primarily) converted to fire automatically and were armed with grenades, hundreds of thousands of rounds of ammuntion, 0.50cal sniper rifles and established overlocking fields of fire to help defend their fortified compound...
That's obviously a high end threat, but I don't see conventional policing tactics working in that type of scenario...
That vehicle on the side has "Special Response Team" so they are obviously some sort of tactical unit, they aren't just using an MRAP for average patrol duties...
They could conceivably even belong to a bomb disposal unit of some sort and such a vehicle might have a very significant and legitimate role in such operations, but clearly this is a set up photo shoot of some kind.
I appears that the photos are from the Woodward Dream Cruise. It started as a small car show and has grown exponentially. Lots of Fire and LE Departments set up vehicles as recruiting/PR/outreach tools. Congress forced DOD to buy a bunch of MRAP and other armored vehicles despite the DOD's protests that they had enough. The extras were disposed of to various LE agencies. Pork barrel politics at work.
These are NOT for local police! They are for the illegal Federal police force being assembled by Obama. And there aren't a few of them, the contracts appear to be for about 1500! Add to this, the HS purchase orders for around 2 Billion, yes BILLION rounds of various calibers, and you have to question just what is being planned.
Hello Solomon,
ReplyDeletethis is just a guess but could it be a company demonstrator dressed up to impress potential customers?
GrandLogistics.
well i am wondering are these the military procured and maybe now doesnt want (good for iraq and not afghanistan)? also since its immigration it can help with the very rough terrain on the US mexican border, also with protecting the people inside incase the cartels open fire (those bastards are becomnig more aggressive, almost a warzone in its own right). oh well just theories.
ReplyDeleteA better question is why does DHS's "Immigration and Customs Enforcement" need any armored vehicle?
ReplyDeleteAn even bigger question is what is the purpose of Slat Armor that protects almost none of the vehicle?!?
well as i said, ICE is stepping up patrols of the border, and its a very high risk place.
ReplyDeletewell let me tell you. in certain circles of the internet this is being looked at with great alarm.
ReplyDeletei remember that the Marine Corps bought 60 of them so my assumption is that they were transfered to DHS....but my question remains...why would they need full blown MRAPs!
it the danger is small arms on the border then they've been lying to the American people.
if its some other domestic terror threat then again, they've been lying to us.
well i do know that vcross border violence is a problem. the ATF is having problems now with a botched effort to track weapons, alot of weapons used by the cartels are sold in the US.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.reuters.com/article/2011/01/31/us-usa-mexico-napolitano-idUSTRE70U5TB20110131
we should quit this bullshit of having civilians on the border, create some light infantry units, give an exception in Posse Comitatus and deploy military units to control the border. regular rules of engagement apply, do not fire until fired upon then kill the bastards.
ReplyDeleteSol, police style tactical teams require armour for protected recovery operations and for breaching operations. You can't just crash soft skin vehicles into houses/buildings if you need to breach in a hurry but you can sometimes with armour...
ReplyDeleteIf someone is bleeding out and your team needs to go in, they can't be expected to unduly risk their own lives just because some see the use of "armour" in a civilian setting as "scary".
Qld police's SERT (Special Emergency Response Team) just received it's first armoured vehicle for this very purpose. Can't have even an elite tactical team going in unprotected in scenarios where military grade weapons are employed and there's all too many of these types of incidents these days...
Here's the footage of SERT's vehicle. The show is a bit gay but the vehicle is a pretty cool capability.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqZRl3qLeb4&feature=youtube_gdata_player
well i can't speak for Australia but in the US the militarization of our police forces is an issue.
ReplyDeletea big issue.
the problem here is that the police use infantry tactics against people that pose no threat.
on a side note i would eat a SWAT team alive if they tried to stack at my door...the only pie they would slice is the ass pie i handed back to them as they beat a hasty retreat...but i digress.
against military trained individuals that are actively resisting then i can see it but in the photos above those vehicles belong to our Federal government. not cities SWAT teams....to the Feds that are rarely involved in those type situations.
it seems like overkill to me. massive overkill.
but on a side note that vehicle that you all bought is a BEARCAT.
not an MRAP but definitely an armored vehicle. but that leads to a question for you.
how would you feel if your police were using Thales Bushmasters in this role?
While everyone is talking about the DHS, did you know that a couple weeks ago the Department Of Education's SWAT team broke onto a guys home, because of unpaid student loans. And it turned out they got the wrong house.
ReplyDeletehelm, it wasnt because of bad student loans, that was because of a fraud investigation as well, the defaulted student loans were not the reason swat was ordered in.
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't have any great problem with our tactical teams using a Bushmaster IMV. I'm afraid I don't really get what difference the vehicle itself makes really? I remember LAPD used to use an M113 back in the day and if Bushmasters were cheaper, our blokes may well have ended up with one.
ReplyDeleteIt may have even helped with their covertness a bit because you can see Army Bushmaster IMV's driving on the streets of Brisbane all the time (one of our biggest Army bases - Gallipoli Barracks Enoggera, has just about the biggest alotment of Bushmasters in Australia).
Those blokes we put in harms way deserve protection from fire every bit as much as the infantry we send overseas. I find it a curious case that it seems to be quite okay to send armour overseas for use against others, but your domestic law enforcement agencies which are facing military level threats in many of their operations, shouldn't be equally as well protected?
I remember reading many years back, the Branch Dividians had more than 100 military grade rifles (AK-47's and AR-15's primarily) converted to fire automatically and were armed with grenades, hundreds of thousands of rounds of ammuntion, 0.50cal sniper rifles and established overlocking fields of fire to help defend their fortified compound...
That's obviously a high end threat, but I don't see conventional policing tactics working in that type of scenario...
That vehicle on the side has "Special Response Team" so they are obviously some sort of tactical unit, they aren't just using an MRAP for average patrol duties...
ReplyDeleteThey could conceivably even belong to a bomb disposal unit of some sort and such a vehicle might have a very significant and legitimate role in such operations, but clearly this is a set up photo shoot of some kind.
Cheers,
AD
Keep in mind, Sol. Looking at that guys account, that photo was taken in 2009. In Michigan. Why the hell was it way up there, is another question.
ReplyDeleteI appears that the photos are from the Woodward Dream Cruise. It started as a small car show and has grown exponentially. Lots of Fire and LE Departments set up vehicles as recruiting/PR/outreach tools.
ReplyDeleteCongress forced DOD to buy a bunch of MRAP and other armored vehicles despite the DOD's protests that they had enough. The extras were disposed of to various LE agencies. Pork barrel politics at work.
These are NOT for local police! They are for the illegal Federal police force being assembled by Obama. And there aren't a few of them, the contracts appear to be for about 1500! Add to this, the HS purchase orders for around 2 Billion, yes BILLION rounds of various calibers, and you have to question just what is being planned.
ReplyDelete