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| Lt. Commander Timothy Ringo (left), aeromedical safety officer, and Marines with the 11th Marine Expeditionary Unit receive instruction for proper underwater breathing during egress training Nov. 7. Approximately 200 Marines and sailors with Company L, 11th Marine Expeditionary Unit, made the Corps’ first egresses from a simulated amphibious assault vehicle, which was dunked in a Pendleton pool Nov. 7-11. The Marines embarked USS Makin Island, USS New Orleans and USS Pearl Harbor in San Diego Nov. 14 beginning a seven-month deployment to the western Pacific and Middle East regions. Photo by Cpl. Chad Pulliam |
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| Marines with the 11th Marine Expeditionary Unit practice evacuating a sinking amphibious assault vehicle Nov. 7. Approximately 200 Marines and sailors with Company L, 11th Marine Expeditionary Unit, made the Corps’ first egresses from a simulated amphibious assault vehicle, which was dunked in a Pendleton pool Nov. 7-11. The Marines embarked USS Makin Island, USS New Orleans and USS Pearl Harbor in San Diego Nov. 14 beginning a seven-month deployment to the western Pacific and Middle East regions. Photo by Cpl. Chad Pulliam |
Problem is this. We've had this training for ever and a day. The only difference is that it hasn't been done with a "designed" training aid.
My question is this. Has the Marine Corps become risk averse? Was there some type of finding that an experienced AAV crewman didn't know how to properly egress from his vehicle?
I find that hard to believe.
I don't know what caused the tragedy that took Sgt Rice's life but something tells me that he didn't die because he didn't know how to properly escape from a sinking AAV.
And since this isn't the first time that a crewman has died in a vehicle incident then why have we decided that this type of training is necessary?
Why is an aeromedical safety officer dabbling in ground vehicle safety? Doesn't he have enough work to do on the wing side?
Is this type of training even realistic? Does it help?
I've been extremely impressed from the outside looking in at what the 11th MEU has been doing. This smacks of political correctness so bad that it reeks.
Being in the military is inherently dangerous. Developing training routines like this don't lessen the danger.
Besides, the more I look at this the more it looks like the dunk chamber that pilots go through for their water survival training.
The Marine Corps seems to be losing its way in small ways...
Polls being taken of the troops to decide on a uniform issue and then ignoring the polls (rolled sleeves vs. sleeves down). Unique weapons buys (IAR). Buying gear items year after year and not getting it right (boots, ruck sacks, holster). Ditching useful uniform items and instead buying boutique, one use specific items instead (new PT uniform).
And now this.
I'm not impressed.
A couple things. This trainer has been in the works well before Sgt Rice died. While his death may have speed up the development and maybe why the corps said we need the system this whole project started several years ago as part of the new combat swimmers program.
ReplyDeleteAnother factor, this trainer is primarily for the embarked personal, notice its just the crew compartment. There is a humvee trainer in the works if I remember right.
As for Sgt Rice, I didn't know the guy personally, but I know what the report says. His water preops hadn't occurred, he wasn't using proper water SOP as his vehicles bow plane was down and what killed him he had a student driver using the hand throttle on the aav (gets stuck easily, used as a back up throttle). When the student got the throttle stuck and water rushed over him he got scared and bolted leaving the hand throttle at full speed.
Rice got his crew out, but they didn't follow SOP. If your water egressing you go out the turret. Not the driver station. To much to get caught up on.
the article that accompanied the photos said that the LTCMDR developed the system. i never heard of it being in development but i'll take your word on it but someone needs to tell the LTCMDR cause he's taking credit for it. i haven't read the report and doubt that i ever will...but i wasn't there so i don't know...
ReplyDeleteThe ltcmdr may have been on the team that got it done, we had heard of a trainer before last Jan but it wasn't till afterwords that real work got done.
ReplyDeleteBrigadier Gen. Michael M. Brogan, the Commanding General of Training Command, convened a Board of Inquiry immediately after the mishap, which claimed the life of Sgt. Wesley J. Rice. The inquiry determined a number of factors contributed to the tragedy. These factors included a mechanical failure on the vehicle, non-standard training and operating procedures, and ultimately a lack of sufficient oversight within the Assault Amphibian Schools Battalion.
Full thing here,
http://www.marines.mil/unit/basecamppendleton/pages/publicaffairs/pressreleases/2011/release11-16.aspx
CAMP PENDLETON, Calif. – In seconds, water filled a sinking hull with four Marines strapped inside. To escape, the men recalled the day’s training, which covered life vests and underwater breathing devices.
ReplyDeleteApproximately 200 Marines and sailors with Company L, 11th Marine Expeditionary Unit, made the Corps’ first egresses from a simulated amphibious assault vehicle, which was dunked in a Pendleton pool Nov. 7-11.
Staff Sgt. David Bowden Jr., a section leader with the unit’s AAV platoon, said that until recently, service members were not required to qualify in an AAV trainer before deploying with the vehicles.
“The trainer is definitely beneficial to the AAV community,” said Bowden. “We used to teach the students how to evacuate and egress from a sinking vehicle. It’s one thing to teach someone how to do something; it’s completely different to actually have them do it.”
Lt. Cmdr Tim Ringo began developing the course in January after a mechanical failure caused an assault vehicle to sink in Camp Pendleton’s Del Mar boat basin, killing Sgt. Wesley J. Rice.
Ringo is a 42-year-old aeromedical safety officer and the first of his kind assigned to a Marine expeditionary unit.
“Being able to create the course exceeded all of my expectations,” said Ringo, a Jonesboro, Ga., native. “Ultimately, the intent was to save lives, and I believe that’s what we’ve done.”
Company L is one of three rifle companies with Battalion Landing Team 3/1, the ground combat element for the unit.
A platoon of tracked vehicles from 3rd Assault Amphibian Battalion, Camp Pendleton, reinforces the Pendleton-based 3rd Battalion, 1st Marines.
The Marines embarked USS Makin Island, USS New Orleans and USS Pearl Harbor in San Diego Nov. 14 beginning a seven-month deployment to the western Pacific and Middle East regions.
none of what is sited in the report indicates that SGT Rice didn't know how to exit his vehicle.
ReplyDeletewe have egress trainers for HUMVEE's....now AAV's....whats next LAV's???? what about tanks???? how about some dunk trainers for MTVR's???
i mean seriously. not to sound crass but people die. training is dangerous and these trainers aren't worth dog shit. when they have a trainer that fully illustrates a fully loaded vehicle with a bunch of radios, fuyll 782 gear, full ammo loads etc...then all this hollywood shit is good for is for protecting some check mark to protect some CO's ass.
its sad. its pathetic. its risk averse. its zero defect mentality.
its beneath the Marine Corps.
Hmm, well he could of developed the crs. Makes sense, I just remember being told about this egress trainer the first time I went to the humvee, mrap rollover trainer (never a fun time)
ReplyDeleteThe breaking of sop is what they are talking about, when I say he didnt egress right that among other things, . (mgysgt Hermes was pretty irritated on this whole matter) in the end what matters is he did his job as a crewcheif. He got his crew out
ReplyDeleteI was a instructor at the school in the early 90's. At that time we didn't even discuss how to egress from a sinking or sunk vehicle. I do know that as the throttle on the vehicle that sunk became stuck, water poured into the drivers hatch and panic likely ensued. All that needed to be done at that point was to shut the vehicle off. It would have stopped the flooding and the electric bilge pumps would have been enough to pump out the water.
ReplyDeleteThis type of training can keep panic from happening.