I had to cool off on this one.
The Brits did as expected and switched back to the F-35B.
Honestly my first post on this subject said things like...They just need to drop out of the program...Why are we letting these people muck with the F-35 when they're buying so few of them...and lastly....What the fuck are they thinking, I've seen two year olds with more conviction when buying things.
But I'm left with this.
We're just two different countries.
With that in mind, may I make a suggestion?
Table this decision. Don't reverse it, just table it. Take a couple of years to decide exactly what you want to do. Your spots will be taken up by Israel and you'll be dropped down to observer status in the program and we'll get on with it. If you want back in awesome. If you don't then that's fine too.
But the interservice battles. The moves by the Royal Air Force to push this choice...The Royal Navy's obvious disgust by the choice is apparent.
Just let it go guys.
We'll talk to ya later.
The Brits did as expected and switched back to the F-35B.
Honestly my first post on this subject said things like...They just need to drop out of the program...Why are we letting these people muck with the F-35 when they're buying so few of them...and lastly....What the fuck are they thinking, I've seen two year olds with more conviction when buying things.
But I'm left with this.
We're just two different countries.
With that in mind, may I make a suggestion?
Table this decision. Don't reverse it, just table it. Take a couple of years to decide exactly what you want to do. Your spots will be taken up by Israel and you'll be dropped down to observer status in the program and we'll get on with it. If you want back in awesome. If you don't then that's fine too.
But the interservice battles. The moves by the Royal Air Force to push this choice...The Royal Navy's obvious disgust by the choice is apparent.
Just let it go guys.
We'll talk to ya later.
we paid thru the noise for level one participation, your idea wioll never fly simply because we have no other options for flying from them.
ReplyDeleteunless you wanna sell our harriers back?
you guys have walked away from bigger deals without batting an eye...why would this be a problem.
ReplyDeletei think the issue is because the QE carriers are under construction and they need to know how to configure their carriers, the further along the construction is the more expensive refits will be.
ReplyDeletei'm really to the point of where i wish they would buy steam catapults and Rafales from France and be done with it...
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ReplyDeleteThe Brits bought into F-35 long ago and are the only Level 1 partner. They're not going to pull out of the program for any number of reasons including industrial cooperation and benefits.
ReplyDeleteIf one steps back from all this back and forth with B or C at the end of the day the UK is buying the F-35 and just has had a bit of trouble over which version.
Based on comments to Parliament the deciding factor on going back to the B was simply cost. The conversion looked to cost $3 billion and they didn't want to spend the money. Additionally it also appears the conversion would delay completion to 2023 (which is rather difficult to believe but I don't work at MOD or RN) and that the fitting in EMALS was going to require a lot more rebuilding due to lack of space.
Sol the upside is the B will end up marginally cheaper due to more being produced and thus the RN just saved the Corp a few bucks.
oh i'm aware that the B will be cheaper...and i'm on board with why the Brits won't back out...but i'm annoyed at the debate thats going on over there regarding the program.
ReplyDeletethe Brits are entirely too vulnerable to influence groups. they have something funky going on between their air force and navy...and they have a powerful left wing that just wants to cut the defense budget to shreds and a society that seems ready to let them.
i just don't see them as being as reliable as our partners in the middle east or asia...heck, to be honest even Turkey has been more steady.
Well I take your point but personally I'm still pissed off at Turkey and France from 2003 (Turkey denying passage for one of our divisions following France leading the campaign against our invading Iraq) so the UK still looks comparatively solid.
ReplyDeleteWhile one can complain about the UK having issues relating to defense compared to most of the rest of Europe they're 2.5% of GDP looks positively hawkish, they've been sold allies for decades, we've got a lot of shared history and values, and their personnel are solid professionals. Canada spends less than half than the UK on defense by GDP as does Germany, Japan, etc. Frankly I'd be hard pressed to think of a better ally?
It's also more than just the military dimension. On the political, intelligence, and economic levels together with militarily the UK is probably our most important ally. Maybe Canada depending on how much one weights economic importance in this equation.
nicely said
Deletedittos
DeleteIndeed Lane, indeed. You could also have noted that this latest bomb plot actually appears to have been foiled by UK intelligence services, with the double agent himself being Britishm, indeed the US seems to have barely been involved.
DeleteI'd have thought Sol you'd be delighted that a buyer for the F-35B, destined for your beloved USMC, has returned to the fold - presumably making the F-35B much more secure and reducing costs to the USMC.
The reality is that despite the significant level of defence spending in the UK, third behind the US and China (or 4th after France depending on how you cut it), that the UK has no need for full carrier battle groups akin to the USN. What the UK does however look for is a strong expeditionary capability. Indeed one would perhaps the best example for what the UK should be trying to achieve with armed force capability is no other than the USMC.
As an aside the French military budget includes the Gendarmerie which is basically the national police and should be taken out when calculating the actual military budget. Keeping it in is basically an accounting trick to make the budget look larger than it is. The UK spends more.
ReplyDeleteOf this I am aware - hence the depending how you cut it line. Exchange rates and PPP are also vital in comparing budgets
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