I've noticed many Marine Corps and especially SOCOM exercises that are taking place in and around local communities.
I've always questioned why. The Marine Corps and SOCOM both have elaborate mockups that mirror local towns and cities so the training in civilian areas just doesn't make sense.
Additionally I've seen an uptick in the number of training evolutions that are conducted with federal law enforcement agencies.
Why a civilian law enforcement agency would seek to train with the military also escapes me.
The tactics are different. When a Marine Squad assaults a building it isn't done with protecting civil liberties...it isn't done with the idea of preserving evidence.
That my friends is a fact! NO MATTER HOW MANY CLASSES ARE GIVEN ON COMBAT POLICING, YOU CAN'T CHANGE THE DYNAMICS ON A BATTLEFIELD.
So with all that being said, can someone explain the uptick? Can someone explain the rationale?
Maybe the tinfoil hat crowd isn't so crazy afterall. Especially when it seems like the Army is getting into the game.
its without a doubt most if not all future wars will incur major urban combat (afghanistan being an exception right now but Iraq being a good example), mockups are good but buildings are very different in every city, having the ability to sieze different types, sizes and layouts of buildings and towns increases training and doctrine of urban fighting.
ReplyDeletethat my friend is utter bullshit. first, fighting in a city is a fools errand. most commanders will do everything short of mutiny to avoid it...especially in a large western style city.
ReplyDeletenext is the idea that training in an inhabited US city is necessary for military preparedness. its not. we have spent decades upon decades preparing for the urban fight but only in the last 5 years are you seeing US forces actually going into US cities under the guise of it being necessary training.
the Marines were able to successfully fight Hue City without training in US cities. same for the Marines in Fallujah. what about the US Army fighitng in urban areas during the Tet Offensive? Army and Air Force MP's along with a bunch of grunts were able to get the job done. and we won't even talk about the fight for Seoul S. Korea during the Korean war or all the urban fights that took place during WW2.
sorry buddy but history says bullshit on your theory.
well i think yuor concern is more military going into law enforcement duties, while i cant discount that, i think it would be met with fierce resistance from civilian leaders, so i dont think its that major but i do understand your argument, i wonder if it is some minor PR stuff, getting on the ground and working with communities, makes for good recruitment possibly?
Deletemy concerns were listed but i addressed your comment that its a necessary training tool. i think i pretty much took care of that argument so the question remains. why do it? oh and i do care about the military getting tied into law enforcement.
Deleteboth domestically and even with police forces overseas.
you have to remember that law enforcement isn't viewed as being on the side of the people by more than just law breakers. many are veiwing them as an extension of an unfair government.
the military would do well to remember that local and federal law enforcement isn't "honored" like the military is in the eyes of many of this nations citizens.
It has nothing to do with training. It is about getting seen by the public doing high-speed training. It is public relations, and an attempt to circumvent budget cuts.
ReplyDeletei disagree. public relations are Tiger Cruises and Marine Week or Base Open Houses.
ReplyDeletethis bullshit is something else entirely. quite honestly its down right alarming. when an activation of military resourcs would have been appropriate they sit on their hands. remember when the tornados ravaged the midwest and utterly destroyed a small town? the army did nothing but left those people to FEMA. now there isn't an emergency and they're showing there ass in ST. Louis. something is wrong with this picture!
The French have a large FIBUA facility and also exercise in towns close to their bases.
ReplyDeleteDid it not take the US nearly month to take Fallujah (about the size of Oklahoma City)? Yes they were outnumbered but in terms of firepower and training they were vastly superior to the 3000 or so in the opfor. One month. Joe makes some very good points.
Perhaps when the Cartels come north of the border the alphabet soup agencies will be glad of some heavy support.
your memory is off. Fallujah took time because of the restrictive rules of engagement. not only were the citizens of that city given time to get out but the enemy was allowed with that same time to dig emplacements and to lay traps.
ReplyDeleteadditionally you can talk about the cartels coming north but except for San Diego, every other area on the border except for El Paso which is basically an open city, has a barrier called the desert. if the alphabet soup agencies were concerned about that particular possibility then they should have forces down there now...not wait for them to infiltrate our big cities.
federal law enforcement is currently in a fucked up state and the military is making a mistake in partnering up with them. its just another failing of this current group of general officers. no brains but brown noses.
They are getting ready for Martial law....for when the economies that worldwide are a shakey thread finally snaps...
ReplyDeletethats really the only sensible answer ron. this is craziness in a handbag but many of my readers who are quite realistic on 99 percent of other issues refuse to see the danger in this one.
ReplyDeleteit makes me want to punch walls and scream out!