via Business Week.
The U.S. Navy is sending three large-deck amphibious ships to waters off of New York and New Jersey to assist in storm recovery and relief, according to the Navy’s chief of information.Ok.
“The Navy is moving ships to be closer to the areas affected by the hurricane,” Rear Admiral John Kirby, the service’s chief spokesman, said in a blog posting today.
The Pentagon said in a separate update on military assistance that 10,000 Army and Air Force National Guard personnel have been mobilized to provide support in the 13 states that were hit hardest by superstorm Sandy.
While the three ships haven’t been officially assigned to post-storm duties, Kirby said the moves “will allow our forces to be best-postured to minimize the amount of time it will take these forces to get on station if tasked.”
The USS Wasp, USS San Antonio and USS Carter Hall are being sent from Norfolk, Virginia. The San Antonio is the lead ship in the new $18.8 billion, 12-ship LPD-17 class. The three vessels are capable of carrying Navy helicopters or refueling Army choppers.
The Wasp was already out to sea riding out the storm when it headed north “to be better positioned,” Kirby said, and the other ships today were ordered to follow.
This is gonna be controversial. But here goes. Is the Navy again doing an image over substance exercise?
I mean seriously! I saw the same thing happen with Haiti. The Coast Guard chest thumped for two weeks about being the first on the scene but in reality there was little that a couple of Coast Guard Cutter could do to aid the suffering.
Same with the Navy. They rushed a carrier down to that island but again. There was little that could be done. It acted as a large helo pad and that was it.
Now we're seeing the same thing. Amphibs are being rushed to the area but what exactly are they suppose to do without their compliment of Marines?
What could the military contribute that would be most appreciated? The National Guard is providing troops so that box is checked. Maybe (like John stated) we could send the AAV detachment at Quantico up the coast to assist in the search and rescue. Amphibious vehicles along with a Rifle Company or two would probably be welcomed.
If the Amphibs are manned then the surgical department could help back up local hospitals. An Engineer company from the Corps would be of use...or even better some Navy SeaBees, but amphibs?
Image over substance. But looks are what counts here. Not actual utility.
Don't know if this is the latest news but the local TV news programs in Norfolk this morning say that these ships have not actually been requested yet by Homeland Security and so are just in standby. The Wasp is already at sea and is suppose to be moving north but if this is true that means it has not had a chance to load up with any special supplies, equipment or personnel that would be needed for relief operations.
ReplyDeleteA lot of people outside the military including the news media don't realize that while Navy ships have impressive capabilities they are not set up for relief operations and that includes Amphib ships if they have not had a chance to pull into port and load up on the stuff they need to conduct the operations
These ships can produce electrical power that can be routed ashore if tied up pier side. These can also produce fresh water and provide a surgical suite and sick bay. The Ships galley can whip up some SoS, eggs to order and grits plus tons of Navy style boiled to a gray state Meat loaf.
ReplyDeleteThis Ship with out Marines can be used as temporary shelter for chillern's and families without. As a Barracks for search and rescue or as a refueling point for vehicles and as a secure Helo pad.
I would have sent a Flat top but the Amphibs will do.
USS Wasp...Thats a big deck.
Deletejohn: With all due respect, A big deck flat top is a CV/CVN say the Nimitz.
DeleteThe USS Wasp is a small deck amphib.
they changed the definition on ya Zebra. LHD's are now called big deck amphibs
Deletea big deck is nothing to what the wasp brings. All its got is a big long flat top, boo freaked whoo..unless it drops off all those fighters for helo's its just taking up space.
Deletethe Wasp has room for 500+ in its med bays, 6 operating rooms (2 just for emergencys if my memory serves.), x-ray rooms, a blood bank, labs, and wards. while the Nimitz is a wonder, it doesnt have a well deck where LCAC's and LCU's can pull in and quickly load and unload cargo. it cant carry marines with amtracks, dosers, trams, or vehicles. no, the Wasp and the rest of those amphibs are just what they need, not some "oh look we sent a air craft carrier"
Sol, Msg Rec. will adjust!
DeleteAmphib Flat tops now Big deck amphib.
I was thinking 4 acres plus flight deck of Super Carrier
such as CVN-68 USS T. Rosevelt
Displacement: 104,600 long tons (117,200 short tons)[2]
Length: Overall: 1,092 feet (332.8 m)
Waterline: 1,040 feet (317.0 m)
Beam: Overall: 252 ft (76.8 m)
Waterline: 134 ft (40.8 m)
Draft: Maximum navigational: 37 ft (11.3 m)
Limit: 41 ft (12.5 m)
as opposed to USS Wasp
Displacement: 40,532 long tons (41,182 t) full load
Length: 844 ft (257 m)
Beam: 106 ft (32 m)
Draft: 26.5 ft (8.1 m)
Propulsion: Steam turbines, 70,000 shp (52 MW)
2 × Boilers, 600 psi (4.1 MPa)
2 × shafts
Speed: 23 knots (26 mph; 43 km/h)
Range: 9,500 nmi (17,600 km) at 20 kn (23 mph; 37 km/h)
Troops: Up to 2,200 Marines
Complement: 1,075 officers and enlisted
Seen side by side USS Wasp and Big Deck CV Forrestal for comparison.
http://www.navyemporium.com/ship_photos/images/carriers/forrestal-cv59/USS_Forrestal_CV59_5.jpg
Of Course the LHD with well deck and Helo pads are the best ships for the job of rescuing disaster victims.
DeleteBut for sheer size a CV is one big old Gal!
Most Navy ships don’t carry shore power cables with them, they are usually only useful in their home ports. And Navy ships aren’t really set up to provide power off ship, they can’t synchronize their power with shore supplies for long. So at best if there are power cables and the proper transformers they can supply a few buildings close to the ship.
ReplyDeleteAlso while the ship can supply water from its tanks, its against regulations to make potable water while in port because the evaps and reverse osmosis systems don’t protect against heavy pollution or diseases found in such water
The old Brooklyn Navy yard is still near there.
DeleteNavy ships can pull up in places and just sit there and provide power and water if it's a CVN or nuke powered ship it will produce water from the power plant aboard.
In an emergency such as this one I would think everything needed to produce electricity and water and transport it ashore has been required and is aboard ships now there or on the way. Navy Headquarters Atlantic is just down the road at Norfolk and I imagine every one has thought through what's needed on site and provided it.
Where there is a need, there is a way.
It's been done before.
History of Shore Power Supply by Ships
We all know that many ships when in port use shore to ship power to carry out maintenance work. However, in the past, during wars and environmental catastrophes, large ships were proposed to provide electrical power to small cities or remote areas that were affected. There are several such instances where ships were responsible for supplying electrical power from ship to shore. For example, a US war ship was proposed to supply power to the city of New Orleans after it was hit by the hurricane Katrina.
During World War II, a few US war ships were specifically assigned to supply power to the shore. All these massive ships had turbine generators, which were driven by steam from the oil fired boilers. The turbine generators moved the electric propulsion motors to generate power. All these ships were also equipped with long cables and transformers so that they could deliver power to long distanced places at higher voltages.
A ship named Wiseman powered the city of Manila during World War II and also the port of Mason during the Korean War. It delivered 5,806,000 kwh, a generation capability greater than 1.4 Mw. Also, a ship named Sturgis equipped with a nuclear power plant provided power to the Panama Canal Zone from 1968 to 1975 with a generation capacity of 10 Mw.
http://www.brighthubengineering.com/marine-engines-machinery/23761-power-supply-from-ship-to-shore-and-vice-versa/
DeletePower Producing Capability of Ships - Some Facts
How much power can a ship provide or need?
The amount of power a ship can produce and requires depends on the size of the ship and also on the unit of measure. However for ship to shore or shore to ship power supply the unit for measuring power is quite interesting. The unit of measuring power is nothing but a single shore power cable. This means that the ship's power generation capability is determined after looking at the number of shore power cables attached to it. Also, the ship is considered a load, and it is assumed that it can deliver as much power as it can draw.
The cables are rated to 400A at 450V; 3 phase, i.e. 0.312 MW as unity power factor. A submarine or a war ship connects up to 8 cables, yielding a total of 2.5 MW.
The amount of power a navy ship can deliver to the shore ranges from 2.5 to 21 MW, excluding the power required to power the ship and its power plant.
The problem and the solution within
It is widely believed that a ship can deliver much more power than it usually does. Most of the power generated is used and wasted in the propulsion system of the ship. In the greatest number of ships the steam produced from the oil fired boilers is directly sent to the propulsion turbines which are directly coupled to the propeller shaft. A considerable amount of steam is wasted in the process as propulsion doesn’t consume all the steam produced.
To prevent the wastage of steam, many steam plants fired by oil or by a nuclear reactor use an arrangement in which though the turbines are directly attached to the shaft, the steam can be diverted upstream where it is used to drive a large turbine generator. The used steam and the condensate again goes back to condensate system from where it can be reused, thus forming a loop.
I don’t doubt that you can provide power to cities from ships, what I doubt is if USN ships today have the equipment to do it today. Special electrical generating ships are very possible, but the Navy does not have them and standard USN ships are not set up or equipped to do that job. Also the propulsion side of ship on present USN ships don’t provide any electrical power so you are left with the ships service generators which are much less powerful. The DDG 1000 will have a electric propulsion system so it can provide more power but its still being built
DeleteAlso while the Navy Atlantic headquarters are at Norfolk I really doubt if they have the equipment standing by to do what you want. Unless the military has a program for something, then they won’t have any specialized equipment for such a program.
What I am disputing is not that the Navy could not help in a disaster situation, but whether it is presently set up for such a mission especially with how the ships are equipped today.
USN ships are not set up to provide power to cities and there is no storehouse of such equipment lying around
USN ships are not set up to make water in port and its actually against regulations to do so and there is no storehouse of the additional purification equipment lying around.
USN ships especially when not deployed don’t have large stores of food on board to provide to needy people and it will take time to load them up before they can go to the disaster area.
If we really want the USN to get involved in disaster aid in a big way then a program will have to be started, funding arranged, equipment provided, drills and exercises set up. If this is not done then the results will be marginal and in large part a photo op, not real help needed by cities filled with millions of people.
DJF: I understand what your talking about I've seen a few US Navy ships in my life Big and small.
DeleteThe flight deck and hangar decks can be used to set up and run equipment to produce water and electricity such as the field water and electrical units for the Marines ashore during a landing.
Power can be jumpered off the ship to equipment on the docks (if allowed or able to get pier side) I've seen it done in Subic and in Vieques P. R. the base at at Subic used power from a Locomotive engine when I was there in the 70's and most CV/LPH carry as an emergency power source a locomotive engine as back up mounted aboard.
Regs, common sense or make do, this can be done.
It's easier to just fly stuff in VERTREP style stage on deck and lower by crane or redistribute via HELO or V-22
The United States Navy is a very capably outfit and can at times work miracles.
all of 2nd Track Bn should be on those boats. you would easily have 150+ AAV's who can easily swim and travers any train they would find. Can Carry 10000+lbs of cargo, have the ability to haul lots of personnel (rescue/enginners, ect...). That whole bn should be one its way up the east coast.
ReplyDeletealso...the USS San Antonio makes it there without breaking down? i think not. The Wasp and Carter Hall are good boats...but whats the point without the amtracks
http://www.schneider-electric.com/solutions/ww/e/sol/17089982-shore-connection-for-seaports?segment=4872983
ReplyDelete