We almost had the Pentagon's worst nightmare come to pass. What happens when you throw a competition and no one bids? Well it kinda happened this time...everyone stayed home except for Sikorsky.
That capability has been lost for several decades now. IF the Air Force had been institutionally strong enough to with stand the criticism and defend its choice it would be well positioned for extended rescues over water in the Pacific AND could assist SOCOM in many of its missions...basically because of the capabilities, range and lift power of the MH-47, the nation would be getting two aircraft in one. A very capable rescue platform and an adhoc penetrator to deliver or retrieve Special Operations personnel.
I'm a fan of the H-60. I absolutely love the S-92. But for this mission and with the direction that I see Para-Rescue headed (especially when you consider that they're looking at dropping off at one location traveling maybe 50 miles to rescue a pilot and then 50 miles further in another direction for pickup) the lift power of the MH-47 is needed.Additionally common sense indicates that the Para-Rescue bubbas are heading toward bigger platoon sizes, just as Scout Snipers have done. The days of a pair of Para-Rescue fast roping in as a team of two and fighting off the bad guys with a knife in one hand and a syringe of morphine in the other are as dead as disco.
Grow some balls Air Force. Either pick the MH-47 or wait on the CH-53K. The days of small rescue helos is over.
The Air Force made a big mistake in ending the Pavelow program when they did. I am of the opinion that the MV-22 is NOT the best replacement for the Pavelow mission (Pararescue among others) and they should have extended the program using the newer MH-53E airframes equipped with the Pave capability. And just imagine the CH-53K made into a Pavelow. The Air Force had a winner with a Heavy lift helicopter made for Special Ops, and having to settle for a salad shooter (MV-22) or a Medium Lift (Ch-47) reduces their capability in my view.
ReplyDeletei can't argue with that. but i am kinda geeked about the possibility of the "K" being made into the new Super Jolly Green. that would be awesome.
DeleteHave to admit my bias here, my twin brother was a Pavelow crew member for 15 years, up till they were retired. It was a sad day when they flew their last mission.
Deletethose guys are hard as woodpecker lips and do a ton of work off the books. i'm intrigued by how they're planning their new mission specs.
DeleteMy bro has been retired since 2009, and I am just now getting bits and pieces of stories (names and places changed to protect the innocent) of missions he helped plan. "Hard as woodpecker lips" is accurate.
Delete"I absolutely love the S-92"
ReplyDeleteWhy?
The 53s were just long in tooth, expensive to operate, overloaded to the point they couldn't hover where I was, and had some serious spare parts issues that were getting critical. (room mate was a Pave Low guy--they were extremely complex to learn as well)
The MH-47 people from the 160th I talked to didn't like working with the Pave Lows because they broke down and it meant more work for them to make up the short fall. Naturally they felt the USAF getting the H-47 was a no-brainer.
A little off topic, but since you brought it up, how many men is a sniper team up to these days?
ReplyDeleteMy Canadian source tells me:
ReplyDelete“The USAF should be wary based on delivery delays alone. Then there's the engines. Any problems that the USAF has had with uprated T700s for the MH-60M will likely compound with the H-92.”
Your Canadian source is correct. I don't think they are ever going to get it to work for Canada.
ReplyDeleteyou guys are mixing apples and oranges. first the uprated engines are the same ones that the Army is using sucessfully. next the problems that the Canadians are facing are with two helicopters the S-92 and the AW101. with the S-92 it has to do more with its sub hunting suite than it does with the platform itself...with the AW101 i believe it has more to do with the dang supply system the Canadians are pushing. either way Canada went unique and boutique and its biting them.
DeleteThe Army is using them successfully because they are using blackhawk sized engines and componants on a blackhawk sized helicopter. The S-92 is using blackhawk sized engines and componants on a much larger helicopter. its fat,slow, and they don't know how to make it work without redesigning the whole thing (my assessment) Sikorsky is facing 80 million in delay penalties, with the Canadians I don't think its the ASW suite. they are still trying to find a way to squeeze as much power out of those engines as they can.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure the S-92 is a fine civilian platform, but once it gets into military service and you start adding jammers, chaff flare, machine guns, FLIR turrets and all that other stuff (like say, ASW gear) the margins are intolerable.
I believe in the Osprey. I believe it was worth all the pain because in the end you have an Osprey. Canada is going through all the pain and they'll just get a sluggish blackhawk. There is a reason no one else is touching the S-92, and the one country who did has called it the worst procurement in their history. S-92 is like trying to turn a 737 into a B-52.