If you mix the above map with gun control and other social issues then you can basically see our divide.
The US is balkanized. We are at the very least two countries in one. I really think the above map is fairly representative of how things stand.
I could live with that.
The South, Midwest(portions) and the Upper Northwest all band together...the Northeast, Pacific and portions of the Southwest along with Florida form another country?
Yeah I think that could work.
The dirty little secret is that things have changed since the civil war though. The North isn't a manufacturing sector anymore...all it is is a financial hub and "so called cultural center"...it produces the stock market and musicals and laws that the rest of us don't want.
The Pacific is home to movies and a few big cities that seek to copy the Northeast.
In essence, in todays world the fly over part of our country is where its at. Food production, oil and gas production all come from this region.
Ports are available in New Orleans, Houston and North and S. Carolina.
It could work quite easily and the fly over states wouldn't miss a beat. Its time to seriously consider what was once taboo. I am beyond tired of being dictated to. Its time for a nationwide divorce. The liberals don't want us and I don't think the conservatives want them. Time to break this puppy up.
Not very patriotic, Sol.
ReplyDeleteyou're probably right but i am beyond tired of some of the stuff being shoved down the throats of people that think like i do. not only do they have the nerve to shove the crap but then they have the audacity to tell me that "its the right thing to do" when its at the very least up for debate.
Deletebut seriously.
i think a break could do both camps good.
Actually if you look at the top 10 manufacturing states, which account for 53% of total US, only 14.5% are in the red states listed (Texas and NC).
ReplyDeleteFor agricultural production the top 10 US states produce 52% of the total and 19% are in the red states listed (TX, NE, KS, and NC).
When a significant percentage of any single state wants to leave maybe we'll have an issue. Till then it's a tad premature to bother reminding people secession was settled during the war of Northern Aggression and the 14th Amendment.
manufacturing what Lane? widgets and trinkets? i doubt that a car industry is worth blowing a horn about. neither is a couple of planes from Boeing in Washington state or Illinois.
Deleteand remember one thing cowboy. as long as people are alive, nothing is settled. everything can be re-litigated. everything is always up for further debate.
NOTHING IS EVER SETTLED.
That's an interesting philosophy but from my perspective many things are settled. A free democratic society being superior to totalitarian police states is pretty much settled to the point of being a truism except perhaps an Islamist at war with the entire notion of modernity. From my perspective one basis of a free democratic society is tolerance. I'm pretty comfortable calling that one settled as well.
ReplyDeleteThe basis of how this nation is governed is the US Constitution and the history of what that means is quite extensive and for the most part extremely well settled. Everything in fact can't be re-litigated. Indeed once the Supreme Court decides an area of law it doesn't bother accepting more cases. It's thus settled law.
Sure enough people can change the Constitution, or anything else, but until it happens it's only true in theory. Everything isn't always up for debate. Slavery being a hideous evil institution is pretty much settled. Ditto for things like all adults voting.
The US is a lot more than a collection of states. We do in fact have a broad collective society with many shared values. Billions of people around the world still aspire to either be an American or live in a society that shares many of our values. Reagan used to refer to us as a shining city on a hill. Not for nothing but our society wasn't less fractured in the 1980's. Wake me up when the signatures in any single state for secession tops 10%.
The 2nd Amendment isn't going away. There are strict limits on what gun restrictions can be passed and it's not remotely clear any significant restrictions are going to be passed. If you want to get motivated to the point of secession because some of your fellow citizens are talking about their legal wish lists that's your privilege. Personally till I see the legislation I can't get a handle on the odds of it becoming law.
Also I don't get excited because tens of millions of American's are knee jerk morons incapable of critical thinking. It's not news to me. Till you do get your own sandbox you're just going to be stuck with them all.
strawman arguments.
Deletenever once did i say or indicate that womens rights, slavery or the right to vote at 18 was debatable. never once did you hear me say that democracy was inferior to totalitarianism.
but what is up for debate is whether a nation this large with a people this diverse with views ranging from extremely conservative to extremely liberal can survive.
consider this. in many cases people are already self grouping. a liberal from Louisiana or Texas would be conservative in New York or California.
the point is, we have many that are calling for the 2nd amendment to be repealed. we also have a president (and previous ones) that have violated the constitution by curtailing basic rights.
a US citizen can be targeted and killed?
indefinite detention?
yeah. everything is not as it appears. for me, the 2nd amendment is the line in the sand. leave it alone and start working on the real serious issues. the debt. implementing obama care. two wars---are we in it to win or are we gonna quit?
yeah there are real issues. keep your hands off my guns.
Sound's 'very sweet & pretty' Lane, BUT when the "POTUS" acts AGAINST American citizens (see what obama & stooge's have run down our throats....THE ENTIRE PICTURE) think reality!
DeleteWe're not a democracy and we are no longer free. If you would do some critical thinking you would find these two things are at odds. Mob rule will destroy individual liberty every time.
DeleteThat is why we were founded as a Republic with the guarantee of Life, Liberty, and persuit of happiness. Not everything is up for debate, nor was that ever the intention.
If you looked at the lessons we should have learned in the 20th century, you will find multiple examples of a majority murdering millions (or being manipulated to the same ends) of people who were in a minority.
What happens when a democratic majority, or their elected leaders, decide they don't like you. Or your kids. Or they think you make too much money. Or they don't like your ideas because they are dangerous to the system of lies used to oppress the masses? Or they think you're existence has put too large a load on the environment?
Those things are happening right now (if you would listen to their words) and that is precisely why our absolute, God-given, inalienable rights are under attack.
RA
The stat about industrial and ag is true- but look at Sol's map a little closer: if you draw lines based on the actual population, then you'll see that your stat swings the other way. I used to live in Illinois, where one county is 90% dem, and the rest of the state is either deep red or at most purple. And the state's industrial base is in the suburbs and downstate.
ReplyDeleteAG
I think what you're really looking at with that map is that, with notable exceptions, cities are blue and rural areas are red. States where the cities size overwhelms the lower density rural areas go blue. California is a perfect example: go 20-30 miles inland and you might as well be in Texas but San Diego, LA and the Bay Area are so much of the electorate that California is reliably blue. Washington and Oregon are similar. So where do you draw the lines?
ReplyDeleteThe industry break is going to be parallel. Big, old school manufacturing is predominantly in suburban or rural areas, especially power plants, while high tech industry is overwhelmingly urban.
that's an even better case for two countries. the needs of densely populated areas and smaller cities/rural areas are different. does a city guy need a ranch rifle? how about a guy whose police response is 20 minutes at best? is a rural guy going to have a need for mass transit or is he more worried about the cost of a gallon of gas?
Deletetwo countries, two different needs and a president who is only concerned with city dwellers.
They'll never willingly let us go Sol. They need us, we don't need them and they know it. They pretend it isn't true and are quite arrogant about it, but it very much is true.
ReplyDeleteI think it's a great idea. I think it would save millions of lives. It would give Liberals the ability to live with their rules and they could quit bitching about obstructionist Republicans. Conservatives get the government we are promised as well! But they are dedicated to "closing the system" and that means control and consolidation, not liberation and independence.
RA
yeah they know they need us and we know we don't need them. thats the shame of it. deep down inside they know that their policies don't work. deep down inside they know that they're talking foolishness but they can't close the loop and admit it.
Deleteif it were to ever happen we'd face an illegal immigration problem from the Liberal States of America. want a perfect example of where its happening today? look at California people moving to Arizona! Look at California people moving to Utah! its just more of the same.
and when trouble finally hits you're gonna find alot of people not wanting the "folks from the city" getting out and coming to there towns.
I bet there are more in the blue states who wish they lived in a red state than the reverse.
DeleteI tend to see this "right to bear arms" issue more philosophically than practically. I think why guns owners are in the minority, all be it a very large one which is bigger than the anti-gunners will admit, is that society is just "safe" enough for many. That is it is always somebody else getting mugged, raped, or killed. There is just enough separation between instances of crime and the spread of population. Not that in one way isn't a bad thing. But it is a transient thing that runs against humanity's whole history where we never safe. To be told that I can't defend myself by whatever means is just wrong. It is probably one of the fundamental human rights though the UN and other Leftist political powers would never recognise it as such.
Further how do we reconcile as society our support for uprisings and revolutions in the Third World with taking guns. Is it because those Third World peoples should be regarded as less developed than us? That we in the West are better than them? The ballot box ceased to be a conduit of the people's power decades past. And that is what frightens them about an armed populous.
My big fear is that some nutjob takes a pop at Fienstien or even POTUS. Nothing pushes a situation over the edge like a martyr.
You just jumped the shark, boy.
ReplyDeleteno. not really. i can basically tell you how you vote by where you live. i can also determine your views on any number of issues based on that one minor fact. give me your age, race and sex...and possibly add whether you're gay or straight and whether you are for unlimited on demand abortion and i can tell you your political affiliation.
Deletesomething that simple can tell me everything i need to know about your politics.
besides you can't deny that whats happening in california is a model of whats happening nationally and you have a subset of people moving out of that state a rapid rate.
jump the shark? no. i'm seeing things clearly and you don't like the conclusion that can be drawn if you look at the same facts--clearly.
how many times have you heard that we live in a divided countrry? why is the news media attempting to give the president a mandate when he won by 51percent of the vote? its all a lie and all a joke.
Sundown towns!
ReplyDeleteAmen, LordJim...no longer an interesting Defense blog run by Solly...what a shame
ReplyDeletebye. i have neither asked for or seek your approval.
DeleteSolomon you don't like the way the election went, we get it.
DeleteAnd now your pouting like a little kid, and you want to take your toys and go home ...
Grow up ...
fuck you. you don't know me, don't understand and i'm not asking you to. you don't like my blog then don't visit. you got something to say then send me an e-mail with your number and we can talk it out. want to meet ? we can do that too but don't try and act like you have a pair. all i smell is pussy and bullshit. so do us both a favor and just carry your ass.
DeleteA futile discussion. Dollars make U.S. policy, not ideology.
ReplyDelete