via Indian Research Defense Wing...
British Prime Minister David Cameron will attempt to “steal” a six billion pound Indian defence contract from under the nose of French President Francois Hollande when he visits New Delhi this week, according to a media report.I've always found this fascinating.
“The Prime Minister will use a trip to India to try to persuade the New Delhi government to buy more than 100 Eurofighter jets after the French President left empty-handed this week,” the Daily Mail reported ahead of Cameron’s three-day official visit which begins from Monday.
French contractor Dassault Aviation was chosen last year as the preferred bidder for the contract to supply Rafale jet fighters to the Indian Air Force under a USD 10-billion deal – a blow for the UK-German-Spanish-Italian consortium, which includes Britain’s BAE Systems, which builds the Eurofighter.
But Hollande’s hopes of signing a final contract came to nothing this week – despite him squeezing in a visit before Cameron. The French premier also failed to secure any major trade deals, the British paper claimed.
“That has sparked hopes in Downing Street that Mr Cameron can persuade the Indian authorities to rethink the deal and buy the Eurofighter instead,” it said.
“Officials made clear that the Prime Minister wants to steal a march on Mr Hollande, who has repeatedly clashed with Mr Cameron,” the paper said.
Cameron angered the French by offering to put out a “red carpet” for entrepreneurs fleeing Hollande’s new 75 per cent top rate of tax, while the French government retaliated with the same offer for British businessmen if the UK quits the EU in the referendum Cameron has offered.
Quoting a British government source, the Daily Mail said: “Hollande was in India this week and a deal has not been signed so we will want to find out from the Indians how their talks are progressing with the French.”
In reality it should be the Brits, Germans, Italians and others pushing the Eurofighter but instead the UK stands alone in that role.
Additionally I wonder what this will do to British-French moves to forge closer military ties. For the French they're one and the same and the Brits are moving down that same road.
This might turn messy before its all over. I can't wait.
I never understand why India is looking to buy fighters like the Rafale that cost more than 100 million each one when the SU-30 that they already operate only cost 40 million...why not the 45 million Su-35(with better range and payload than the Eurocanards)?
ReplyDeleteMaybe the Flanker isnt the beast that everyone claims it is.
Su-27 is still good old Su-27, regardless how it will be renamed. While SU-35 is "enhanced" version by Russia standards, the only comparable performance its sharing with F-22 -- its weight, and upcoming F-35 outperformed Su-27-derivatives even in this area.
DeleteSo why spend money to already outdated russian(BIG and spacious outdated electronic components, dubious aftermarket support) 4++++ heavy fighter(low fuel efficiency), if you can select between two light fuel efficient fighters with top notch electronics and weapons?
I think indians just haggling for better prices using "partners" against each other.
The Typhoon is 100 million a jet, while the Rafale is about 77-80 million.
DeleteBoth are hideously overpriced which resulted in MMRCA's budget doubling to $20 billion (that figure is certain to increase).
DeleteBoth are vastly superior to the MiG-29 & Mirages that they are intended to replace in the IAF.
Both are 80's era designs with 80's era powerplants that have 80's era (read: high) support and maintenance costs.
Both have doubtful survivability in modern threat environments.
Both represent the last hurrah of European defense aerospace.
After Rafale and Typhoon production ends, European defense aerospace is mostly slated to build technology demonstrators.
i think it cause we're all arm chair air force generals and the guys that really know aren't giving out the keys to the kingdom.
ReplyDeletewhat makes it worse is that 'experts' usually line up in favor of one plane or the other and what do they do? they compare kinematic performance and ignore any electronic edge the other plane may have or vice versa.
what we don't know is how the experts put it all together to determine which plane is a war winner. we don't know the metrics that they use.
but to the point. the SU- series must have a glaring weakness that the Indian air force sees and wants to mitigate at the very least.
Is the glaring weakness of the Su series Russian technical support? I can't remember which website it was on, but I remember reading that when the Indian Su's went on a Red Flag exercise, they couldn't take any spare engines with them because the Russian's insist on every engine being sent back to them for MRO, and only sending out a replacement once they receive the defective one (or something along those lines - please correct me if I'm wrong!).
DeleteMaybe Cameron read this.
ReplyDeletePrice tussle could delay Rafale’s sortie to India
http://www.financialexpress.com/news/price-tussle-could-delay-rafale-s-sortie-to-india/1070617/0
I also read this a while back on a former IAF fighter pilot's blog. Take it for what you will.
An Insight Into Why the IAF Picked the Rafale
http://vijainder.sawfnews.com/articles/68286.aspx
To some extent this is a continuation of old news. The Typhoon and Rafale have gone head to head several times and there is always some nationalistic sniping and deal stealing going on. IIRC the British pushed the Typhoon so hard for the original decision that it backfired and pissed the Indians off.
ReplyDeleteVs. both the Typhoon and more SU-30/SU-35, my understanding is:
-- India wanted the source code
-- India wanted a combat two seat variant (not a trainer variant)
-- India wanted a flying AESA radar, not a paper one.
All three of these are 'advantage Rafale'. Also the Rafale is the only one of the three combat proven in air to ground operations.
The ones in charge of selling the Typhoon to India where the Germans. But you need more than a good airplane to sell one... seams that the Germans were too technical, and buying an airplane is as well a political choose.
ReplyDeleteSmells like the usual old usual. Do not get any kit delivered to the geezers dodging high velocity fragiabled whilst burning the public purse scam. All the while fondling the blamongedconcreteblondes at home in IKEAland. BOFORS anyone?
ReplyDeleteThe guys in the sub continent are getting taken down, finally, before the gunfire and sniper really kicks off courtesy of fake moneyland and Chicomm Zentral via destabilisation, left behind networks, drugdrenched politicos, and jungle operatives in green Burma and urban Malaysia/Indonesia.
uh....what??
Delete@BB: Typhoon did have some AG work in Libya, but it isn't fully capable yet.
ReplyDeleteSol, I doubt anything will come of this, the Indians are just slow. That being said it can't hurt to have the UK lobbying rather than the Germans. In a lot of places the Eurofighter has wanted to sell the Uk has been better placed to lobby, either more political clout or cultural and historical ties, yet they give it to the other partners to try anyway, silly tactic frankly. Shame really.
personally given German pacifism on most military projects i always wondered why they would lead on any project.
Deletethey'll sell the hell out of their armored vehicles but they have a serious problem when it comes to the Eurofighter it seems.
The partners take it in turns to be in charge of exports.
ReplyDeleteSeriously.....
Basically, Germany sees export facilitation work share through the same lens as fuselage production work share.
It wants its "fair" share of the export cash, even when it is entirely incapable of doing the work.
From what I gather from Indian news outlets, the problem doesn't appear to be technology transfer as the French seem OK with that, it just seems that the French can't find or doubt the production capabilities of Indian firms to duplicate the technology.
ReplyDeleteIndia has bought a large number of Sukois and are buying another small batch. They are better off waiting for derived PAKFA. India has always bought from numerous suppliers so I think they will stick with France Dassault.
"it just seems that the French can't find or doubt the production capabilities of Indian firms to duplicate the technology."
DeleteHilariously flimsy pretense given that all bidders were required to justify the contract price on the basis of production in India which would in turn necessitate detailed due diligence with Indian firms before the final bids were submitted.
France's position merely gives further credence to the widespread view that Dassault massively low-balled their bid and now is claiming some kind of force majeur to get out of the contracted price.