Note: I'm beyond a little miffed at the lack of coverage of LAAD by US "military" oriented news sources.
Via Military Technology.
The Brazilian Army has aquired 36 GEPARD anti-aircraft armored vehicles by Krauss-Maffei Wegmann (KMW).You're seeing a modern day arms race in S. America. That many arms flowing into the region with all the simmering rivalries WILL lead to (if we're lucky) at best a few border skirmishes or at worst a couple of regional wars. Yes I'm a broken record but I have yet to see a Think Tank take on the subject.
These modernised GEPARD include new C3 capabilities, improvement of target engagement with extended combat range, a new fire control unit, shorter reaction time, and better hit to kill probability.
A culpa não é do USA e sim dos governos socialistas da região que descartam as ofertas de armas americana (US).
ReplyDeleteEu já penso em me mudar do Brasil, tamanho a inclinação socialista e comunista aqui e na região. Os únicos paises que se salvam da influência marxista é o Chile e Colômbia
Abraços
The fault is not in the USA but the socialist governments in the region who dismiss offers of American weapons (U.S.).
I already think about moving from Brazil, size slope socialist and communist here and in the region. The only countries that are saved, the Marxist influence is Chile and Colombia
hugs
wow. its interesting that you picked Chile and Colombia as the democracies in S. America. i'm gonna do a post on the work that US Marines are doing with the Chilean Marines and Special Forces is doing with Colombia. thanks for the heads up!
DeleteGetulio o mundo não é somente os Estados Unidos, da mesma forma que compramos armas americanas também podemos comprar armas russas e chinesas.
DeleteSolomon,
ReplyDeleteIn Brazil, the army is "updating" our outdateded AA defense, which is actualy a few hundred Bofors 40mm guns and Manpads Iglas.
The Brazilian army alson has been talking with Russians (Rosoboronexport) to by some Pantsir bateries (3 some fonts says). Maybe this contract will be signed on LAAD this year. I do not believe by these numbers, this may be considered an arms race.
Congrats for your Blog and for your coverage on LAAD.
thanks Humberto. question. why would Brazil buy Russian arms instead of doing another Iveco type deal and design a system that could be exported? also, you don't see a danger with instability in Venezuela and Argentina possibly leading to those countries seeking an outside war to divert attention?
DeleteIn field of AA and SAM systems Russian arms are very competitive and in many cases offer higher preformance that western systems
DeleteFIFA World Cup in 2014 and Olympics in 2016 make the inception date very important. They gotta have something to swat down flying terrorist threats.
Deleteas to why not develop it? Think about it: Nobody in the west is seriously doing Short or Med Range AA defense. Which Western military takes air defense seriously these days? Thus, nothing in the R&D pipeline.
There is a general dearth of AA systems in Western militaries since they are counting on having air superiority. That seems to me to be a major assumption that could have serious consequences.
Euros have been involved in low intensity conflicts and fighter aircraft are viewed more like bomb trucks than air-to-air platforms. Imagine an enemy with credible semi-stealthy aircraft, good AWACS support and robust, modern air defenses. Now try to imagine Western (sans American involvement) trying to wage a war against such a threat. The Europeans would be 'overmatched'.
Solomom,
DeleteThese purchases have been made in haste due to the World Cup and the Olympics Games in 2016. Indeed the best way would be to develop a AA version based on Iveco (Guarani) but it would not be ready until the world cup, perhaps in the future.
As the regional threats, currently Venezuela represents a greater threat than Argentina (Argentina is in deep ecomicals troubles, they could not afford a military action right now). And I believe it is more likely happen a civil war in Venezuela than they try to invade Brazil.
Will someone with more knowledge than I have explain to me why they still make these? Ever since the Hellfire (fired from a multitude of platforms nowadays) came out I thought these were rather obsolete.
ReplyDeleteif you're using Hellfire or even Brimstone you're within range. additionally even if you get a kill, it might be mutual unless you're targeting these vehicles oh and last, take a close look at these vehicles. those are missiles hung on it too.
Delete"if you're using Hellfire or even Brimstone you're within range"
DeleteBrimstone can reach out to 12km.
Thats not to underestimate the threat these present to helicopters.
Brazil has some pretty unique defence needs. Much like China really, its so much more powerful than its neighbors that any contest appears laughable. Yet the logistical difficulties involved with fighting wars 2000km inland, in jungle, would be immense. Concurrent wars against Columbia and Argentina would be almost unthinkably complex.
Hellfire and Brimstone far outrange this AAA unit.
Deletehmm. ok. i'll grant that but may i ask in what system is a gun anti-air vehicle operating alone. it has two 35mm guns and what looks to be four stinger missiles.
Deleteface it gents. Brazil has better protection for its armored columns than the US Army or Marine Corps does. trying to hop Patriots around to keep them under your anti-air umbrella would keep that person going crazy. they NOW have self propelled anti-air system in service.
feel good or do you all still want to bitch about comparing weapon system Z against Y when it doesn't work that way in real life?
The US does not think much about Mobile SHORAD much due to its maintaining air supremacy. While this has always worked, the introduction of more UAVs into the battlefiled will bring this capability gap to light very quickly.
DeletePersonally I think they should go for a multipurpose vehicle with:
1. Revolver cannon of 30-40mm capability
2. Dismountable radar to cut down on costs where not needed
3. MANPADS class missiles
4. Hellfire class missiles
5. ATKWS class missiles
Function would be to support infantry in assaults and defend against SHORAD targets and UAVs
Hmmm, Spudman, didn't Sol have a thread about something similar to the system you are proposing last week? ;)
DeleteYes and No
DeleteThe Canadian variant of ADATs (MMEV) is a missile only solution.
Basicaly I am saying take half the missiles away and put in a 35-40mm cannon.
I guess my thought was if there are enemy jets or helicopters giving you shit, thats what the US Air Force and the US Navy were for.
ReplyDeleteThe longer I think about it though, the more I can see use for these. These would be great against 101st/82nd style troop deployments. They would also work well against the smaller less armored helos out there like the "Little Birds" or Hueys that can still make life hard for infantry or light armor.
I guess when I first saw this, all I could think was "If you pitted this against an F-35 or an AH-64D/E with the Longbow radar system, there wouldn't be much if any contest." But obviously there is more out there to shoot down than what American's are flying into combat with.
Listen guys, as a Brazilian I can tell this purchase of equipment fits the new conception of DoD, brought by END - National Defense Strategy a document of 2008. The main institutional goal of new politic is to prepare a small, but very operacional and mobile army. Since them, our AA equipments were based in some Oerlinkon 35mm, Bofors 40 mm and Igla missiles with no armour attached at all. Although these devices could serve well the infantry deployed at the field, heavy cavalary hadn't anything to be with in case of absent air superiority.
ReplyDeleteThe requirements and standarts established by the Brazilian army is totally different from the US army. We face no global war and our scenario is less complicated (in terms of threats)than our neighbor in the North. No helicopter or plane in the region have anti-armour stand-off weapons, it means, to detect and shoot - it'll get close enought to be in range of Gepard's weapons. In the other hand, to face stand-off weapons, guieded by GPS or others means, which are being developed by some countries in the region, DoD is negotiating with the Russians the brand new Panstir S-1.
In my opinion, we will never face, or have to face the F-35 with Brimstone or AH-64 with the Longbow. The power's balance is based on distincts elements faced by each country and Gepard fits well the requirements of Brazilian army.
By the way, thanks for your blog, Solomon. It is pretty nice!
ReplyDelete