Well gawd damn! They actually did it! Now they just need to do me a freaking favor and answer my e-mails! I asked about this last week and didn't get a response -- then this pops up on their website. An expense paid factory tour will be a sufficient mea-culpa.
Did what?
ReplyDeletei thought it obvious. tested and fitted a large caliber cannon to the Elite class vehicle. i asked because rumor mill swirling up North is that its being looked at as a surrogate Close Combat Vehicle.
Deleteok, Sorry for missing that as I remember they had a 90mm gun on Cadillac Gage Commando vehicles decades ago.
DeleteIs it 105mm or the same 90mm?
Here's a link to the 90mm gun.
http://www.cmigroupe.com/en/p/cockerill-cse-90lp
did a post on the V-600 a week or so ago. haven't seen anything this heavy since though. eyeballing it i think its a 90
DeleteEven at 90, it would make a fine Infantry support gun.
DeleteThere was a bunch in GW1 but they were lost when they tried to go up against Iraqi armor directly.
Sort of like AML90 ,just that AML90 sported 90mm gun on a Humwve sized platform some 50years ago and about 4000 were built and many are still in use.
ReplyDeletethe M-103 carries the same caliber gun as the M1A1 (both 120mm) so are you saying that they're the same?
Deletelearn a bit about the Textron offering. its mine resistant...the Army left MP's in the vehicle in Iraq throughout the IED campaign by the enemy...its amphibious, its versatile and it can go where billy goats roam. the same can't be said for the AML90.
Not the same but 50 years late to the game warrants some updates.
DeleteAML90 ,ERC90 and AMX10 proven in combat mostly in Africa. AML90 amazes in handling a 90mm gun in a 5.5ton platform . All three french armored cars are dedicated platorms and quite compact for the firepower they pack.
This on the other hand is evolved Cadillac Gage V100 convoy protection vehicle ,by the way 90mm guns were refitted to Portugese V150 in the 80's .Maybe i am missing something but the turret on Textron doesn't look to be sporting a high pressure - high velocity gun but a low pressure one like AML
yet again another false argument. first the AMx-10 is hardly compact. second, the US armor concept only recently embraced wheeled armored vehicles, the French have been developing this stuff over a longer period for the sole purpose of internal security.
Deleteapples and oranges.
OK AMX10 is in class of its own closer to a tank destroyer than an armored car,i agree french and anyone else policing africa embraced wheeled vehicles after WW2 ,as Africa is not full of MBTs ,90mm where ever it shows up is pretty much the bigest stick around. As for mine protection, armor on AML and ERC is not very thick(same as on commando without bolt on armor) but its design where only central tub is armored was meant to improve survivability against landmines ,IEDs were not used in numbers in Africa ,but mines were common so many vehicles ambraced some sort of anti mine protection ,in end effect first MRAPS were south african designs.
ReplyDeletenope. can't let you go with that one either. first the Textron is certified as being mine resistant. the French ERC can't say the same. additionally you changed the subject. we weren't talking about S. African vehicles we were talking about French vehicles in comparison to the Textron offering.
Deleteeveryone who knows the smallest thing about military history knows that the S. Africans led the development of the vehicles. last but not least everyone wants to talk IEDs but in reality all we're talking about are homemade mines. nothing more or less. the US and its allies let anti-mine technology wane after WW2.
duhh you are unforgiving.
ReplyDeleteMixed in South Africans as the same battlefield spawned mine protection demands well before anyone else .As said french hull design provided a high degree of mine protection for the period.
ERC-90 technical datasheet seez, all wlded steel armor STANG 4569Level 3 protection over frontal arc level 2 alround v shaped bottom to deflect the blast force of an explosion and protects the floor against mines.
If you modenrize in half same way as textron did fiting huge oversized tires for more ground clearence and bolting in add on armor you could certifiy to what ever level commando could only dream off.simply because ERC like AML has a very small hull in the center and blast can freeley rip of anyhing around the wheels while textron is a bus that was meant to carry dozen or so men (i tihik i read that it carried 12 in vietnam)with those riduculus tires i would like to see it do much od an incline before rolling.
Just looked up the dimensions ERC-90 cca 3feet lower than basic Textron elite let alone one with the 90mm turret that will ad roughly 2 more feet
ReplyDeletelet me fully squash your statements. i can see that half measures just aren't good enough. first the textron vehicle has ground clearance that accomplishes two goals. mobility and aids in mine resistance. second, you're smoking crack if you believe that the ERC was born with a freaking V-hull. i haven't even looked at the stats on the vehicle and i know better. once i'm finished here i'll check but i don't buy it. next, what is the exact point you're trying to make? that the ERC has a 90mm turret and so does the Textron? we already talked about that. that the ERC is a wheeled vehicle before the Textron? we talked about that too. how you're slamming the S. Africans into this is almost insane but it has no bearing on this discussion.
Deleteyou're being evasive, you're talking in circles and the only reason why i'm continuing this discussion is because i enjoy twisting you in knots
60 degree incline
ReplyDeletehttp://www.textronmarineandland.com/assets/pdfs/datasheets/commando-family-of-vehicles.pdf
30 degree side slope on regular elite without turret.
DeleteLook at the pictures Solomon all ERC-90 have shallow V shape hull.Mine protection was not invented in South Africa they just took it to the next level with antitank mine protection even from stacked mines.Check a bit history of armored car and you will see mine protection was great concern in their evolutuion and many had a fair degree of mine protection.
Big wheels are appearing mostly for ground clarance to aid mine protection in vehicles that did not have mine protectiton(not jost on old designs but new ones like Havoc too) mobility is more or less a side effect. Textron Commando (elite or not) is in many ways a very limited design that was regarded obsolete years ago made a bit more relevant only by MRAPs that will probably end up as a dead branch in armor development,a great save at the time and place.
Textron elite makes no sense with big gun as its probably stretching design too far if you want fire support in a mobile wehicel you are beter served with a dedicated vehicle than with a aromred bus 'jack off all trades master of none'.
HOW INSANE IS THAT STATEMENT WHEN YOU HAVE EVERYONE FROM GENERAL DYNAMICS TO BAE TO CHINESE MILITARY INDUSTRY TO EVEN PINDAD PUTTING BIG GUNS ON THEIR VEHICLES!!!!! ON WHEELED APCS!!!!
Deletethis isn't a discussion or argument over facts. this is simply you stating an opinion. i'm done.
Yes big guns are being fitted on 6x6 but mostly 8x8s an not on obsolete designs that finished their life as target at the range in the 70-80s ,big foot treatment and some bolt on armor doesn't cut it unless its very very cheap which i doubt.That is my opinion in the same way as it yours that its a good move from textron.
DeleteSimply fail to see what you see in this archaic design that was made obsolete by first LAV or Piranha 6x6
The LAV-150/200 family (aka Commando) had a 90mm gun back in 1970.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.army-guide.com/eng/product3942.html
No shit, I didn't know Textron was in Slidell. I live around Baton Rouge and see these vehicles on back of 18 wheelers all the time. I always wondered what exactly they were. Thanks for the info.
ReplyDeletethey're real good members of the community. i honestly think (with the ship builder going away) that between Textron and the Reserve Marine Headquarters, we would be on the verge of losing a great part of Louisiana heritage....they look like they're getting setup for the future....problem is that future might be in Canada!
Delete