Hush Kit puts together a list of its top ten beyond visual range fighters and the Mighty F-15 is number 6? The Eurofighter is ranked ahead of it at number 2 even though its slower and still uses a mechanically scanned radar?
I think Hush Kit screwed up this time but you can read it here.
I'd take the F-16 Block 60 over the F-14A, Mig-31 and Flanker copycat any day.
ReplyDelete/Bjørnar
BVR the Typhoon should have been behind the Mig-31, Super Hornet, and F-16 Block 60 in addition to the F-15.
ReplyDeleteTranche 3 Typhoons will have AESA radar and ramjet powered Meteor missiles.
ReplyDeleteYeah, number two seems fair.
Once those capabilities are installed fleetwide, yes. Until then, no.
DeleteThe Iranian F-14A shouldn't even be on there, IMHO. Also,the Mig-31 should be last. I don't care what it's BVR capabilities are, that plane cannot survive the merge. Period. Frankly the F-22, F-15, F/A-18 and F-16 should be 1, 2, 3 and 4 respectively because while some of the other planes might have pretty good BVR capes in the near future, all of the American planes have a proven BVR capability in AMRAAM, and until the other variants have AESA radars and an equal-or-better, proven BVR missile like AMRAAM then this list is crap.
ReplyDeleteDid you fail to read the title best BVR fighter ,that means it could be a cargo plane with a huge radar and top notch missle.
DeleteAMRAAM 120C is not even close to being the best missle out there and in combat it has under 50% hit ratio . AESA doesn't actually mean much in terms of BVR till its preformance is any higher in practice .''The much-touted AN/APG-79 AESA radars introduced on Block II aircraft has proved unreliable and has enormous development problems. One scathing report said ‘ …operational testing does not demonstrate a statistically significant difference in mission accomplishment between F/A-18E/F aircraft equipped with AESA and those equipped with the legacy radar''
All US fighters are hampered by average AIM120C-D ,if typhoon has a Meteor instead of AMRAAM it easily outranges them all. MiG 31 is a BVR fighter supreme ,fast with powerfull radar and ultra long range missles that work at almost twice the AMRAAM range same goes for F14 but f 14 is scrap metal Phoenix even more so while MIG has been modernised + mig was meant to be able to kill low RCS cruise Missile while F14 Phoenx combo vas meant to kill Bears with huge RCS
It's all rubbish. Unless the exact metrics used and how they are weighted are discussed it's pointless. The MiG-31 isn't a fighter but rather an interceptor and falling in love with the R-33 in terms of BVR fighter combat is absurd. Even mentioning a few Iranian F-14's is ridiculous as nobody can say with any degree of certainty the exact status the aircraft's systems, especially the 1970's AiM-54's. Stating the Su-30 is marginally better in exercises than an F-15 while citing the PESA in the Su-30 while ignoring new F-15's have AESA and that during the famous Cope India exercises the F-15's weren't allowed to use BVR (AMRAAM) strains credibility. Falling in love with public knowledge weapon and radar ranges isn't credible either.
ReplyDeleteSorry but 3 of the top 5 fighters in the world (BVR) aren't the MiG-31 and late version Su-27's. The 1960's designed F-15, in it's newest forms, is just as good or better.
AS for F15 not being alowed BVR capability grow up most of these execises are scripted in a ways that home team always wins and adversaries are to ones mostly fighting with their hands tied behind the back.
DeleteF15 is superb plane but its the AMRAAM that sucks by modern standards.
Hmmm....exactly how many BVR kills have the Russians, Chinese, French, and British racked up then buddy? Like I said: proven.
DeleteMeteor is an impressive missile but is not operationally fielded. AMRAAM has spilt blood and the exact ranges and capabilities of the newer AMRAAMs, in fact those of all of the missiles equipping every one of these fighters, are classified. So like Lane said unless the metrics are known this list is crap.
And comparing combat launch success rates for the AMRAAM to claimed, theoretical or test shot success rates of other missiles is truly meaningless.
And the MKIs werent using thier powerful PESA radars and overall IAF were flying with Mig21s,Mirage2000,Mig27 and a few Su-30MK(older variants) against more advanced F-16 and F-15s. (WE know that Mig21s and 27s are severly inferior to F-16s and F-15s)
DeleteTalk about the USAF handicaps and not about IAFs? pretty convinent.
Mig 31 and F-14 were impressive in their day but are far too old to be ranked this high. The idea that the Chinese have surpassed the Russians in BVR seems highly unlikely given the short time they've been at what is by far the most difficult warplane role.
ReplyDeleteThe F-15 benefits from AESA but loses points vs. the Typhoon for its much larger RCS, inferior kinematics for missile launch, older cockpit design and presumably narrower radar field of view, i.e. lower off boresight capability BVR. Soviet capabilities are always hard to judge but BVR is where avionics is king and, even if they are carrying a lot of good missiles, the Soviets will probably be disadvantaged.
Overall, the F-15C and Typhoon should be arguing about #2 and #3 and then I'd guess the order probably shakes up depending on whether you are talking AESA Rafale or PESA Rafale.
Very nice list. My only point of contention is the Mig 31 for obvious reasons. The Iranian F14 might come as a bit of a surprise, but those phoenix missiles guided by the Tomcat's ludicrously powerful radar cannot be underestimated. These people touting the F-15 over the typhoon should assume a bit of impartiality and do some more research. The typhoon is undoubtedly the best non 5th gen fighter for air to air capability. The typhoon has a tiny RCS with amazing performance in supersonic agility, acceleration, rate of climb. All this is complemented by a top of the line radar and extremely capable PIRATE passive sensors, and of course the invaluable supercruise capability. The DERA study on BVR performance predicts results which agree rather well with this list. The study judges jets using a simulated kill ratio against the Su-35. The results are as follows:
ReplyDelete10:1 F-22
4.6:1 Typhoon
1.5:1 F15-E
1:1 Rafale
0.75:1 F15-C