Simply freaking amazing. via the Truth about Guns....
“This is my personal preference. I do prefer it over the SA80 solely because in its own complexities, it’s an easier weapon to use. It’s very docile and it’s a lot lighter. It’s also a change because the SA80 can only be fired one way, from the right rather than the left.
British troops lost confidence in the SA80 long ago.
ReplyDeleteThe early versions had problems, but since the fixes and upgrades, then I think most British troops are quite happy with the SA80.
DeleteThe SAS and the SBS have been using the M-16 since the 1960s...
ReplyDeleteOMG. Don't tell the "Bring back the M-14" crowd. They'll have a stroke. I do wonder if some of the people who want to keep the BUFF, the 1911, and the Ma Deuce forever, are the same ones who get excited every time another 'plastic fantastic' M16/4 candidate comes along.
ReplyDeleteI bet these people will still complain when everyone else uses mass accelerator rifles or plasma guns.
DeleteWhat B***s***.
ReplyDeleteThe Marines are having a dig at the .223 round rather than the SA80.
Defence IQ says 'insiders' "have quietly criticised the rifle's 5.56mm calibre ammunition as being too small to effectively defeat a target with a single round and occasionally find themselves vulnerable to a counter attack from wounded insurgents."
Not the Gun.
http://bfbs.com/news/sa80-rifle-right-royal-marines%3F-64190.html
We should have gone with the .280/7mm round back in the 1950's with the EM2.Or stayed with the .308/7.62mm
SA80 might be a clunky gun but since HK fix, m4 would be a reliability downgrade unless it something with a piston along the lines of a HK ,but in any case its the calibre that is being questioned .
ReplyDeleteI think they're going for the HK 416.
Deletei dont see it, the u.k. wont be changing anytime soon, especially now at the end of the war in afganistan.
ReplyDeleteanother thing, no money for re-equipping the royal marines, with new guns!!!!
I know I am not the sharpest tool in the box, but where does it say the RN is buying C8? The SAS and SBS have used the Canuck Colt for a while now.
ReplyDeleteThe original SA80 was an awful thing. You didn't have to know anything about firearms to evaluate it as a cheap and nasty item. The rebuilt version the A2 is satisfactory. But considering H&K basically built a new weapon it should be satisfactory. What you have to guard against is British soldiers who now speak of the A2 as if it is Excalibur and anybody who criticises it as a stupid civi who knows no better. They say it out perfoms everything else in theatre. It doesn't. It is satisfactory. Everybody rifle these days is satisfactory. This stupid civi knows Baikal make perfectly serviceable shotguns which perform satisfactorily, but this stupid civilian also knows he would rather buy Browning!
PS: Yes I said RN above. The RM are a part of the RN not a separate service. Unlike the USMC which is one of two services under the US Department of the Navy.
thats an irrelevant distinction and i wonder why you went to great pains to point out that the Royal Marines are part of the Royal Navy.
Deletethey're Royal Marines. period. so saying that the Royal Marines want a new rifle is accurate. saying that the Royal Navy is buying them....SFW
It was a little jokee aside I was expecting somebody to pick me up for saying RN and not RM. And the reason I did it was because I get tired of correcting others who say the USMC is part of the USN.
DeleteStrictly speaking it would be the MoD who buys the rifles anyway, but that really would be pedantic.
ok. i got it.
DeleteArent the SA80 stocks pretty much shot now anyway?
ReplyDeleteThe rifles have been out of production 20 years and they stopped making spare parts in 2004, just before ghanners went tits up.
The MoD might not want to buy a new rifle, but unless it wants soldiers to march to war with sharp sticks and bad language, it doesnt have a great deal of say in the matter.
I always thought the arguments over what gun was best were a bit pointless.
Who built it and how it was built are generally far more important than the base design.
The British Army uses an AR10 already, as a designated marksman weapon of all things, its simply an extremely well built one, using quality machined components. Make the same weapon out stamped sheet metal, and you have a piece of crap that jams a lot, misses and sometimes propels the entire bolt assembly forwards instead of just the bullet
Just visited site and discussed Weapons with a number of Royals...
ReplyDeleteSeems the issue is not weaponry, which they believed they had a reliable weapon with bipod and good magazine and reliability, the issue is things like rash vests which does not go far enough up the neck (As opposed to American counter part) and the cheap imitation material with Velcro rather than zips. Osprey body armour rather than an on off the shelf purchase of the American variant which they believed to be better.
From discussion it was believed that the stopping power was largely irrelevant as the body armour could stop a 7.62 or 5.56 so against a standing army both rifles would have issues to a degree.
Very interesting topics, but seemed to me the issue was not with Guns, but more "Every day basic" requirements.