I've always thought that the gun community is nuts for supporting Zimmerman. The guy was playing neighborhood watch/keystone cop and because he ignored dispatcher suggestions to stop following Martin, the guy ended up getting into a fight.
A fight that could have been avoided if he had simply stayed in the car.
And that's the rub of it. One action was critical to the entire episode. If he had stayed in the car then the shooting would not have taken place. For cops its the Fruit of the Poison Tree issue. A cop pulls you over illegally and then finds a cache of weapons (a real cache...like 200 Glock 19's and 100 AR-15s) along with 50 pounds of weed, it all gets thrown out (you probably won't get back the drugs...maybe the guns) because the first action, the traffic stop, led to the rest of the events.
But I digress. Check this out...via the Orlando Sentinel.
A resident watching fireworks explode late Thursday over The Hamptons at MetroWest on Turkey Lake said she feared for her life when a man carrying what looked like a machine gun ordered her to leave, according to Orlando police.Gun guys have a serious problem.
The heavily armed man turned out to be Swapna Mandavia's neighbor with the title of "chairman of the fine and hearing violations" committee for the west Orlando complex's homeowners association.
"The suspect, later identified as Howard Fox, approached her and told her to leave because it was after hours," according to an arrest report released Friday. "Mandavia began to leave the pier when Fox raised the gun and pointed it at Mandavia and said she was doing something illegal."
Another resident with two children then complained about a stranger openly carrying firearms. That's when Mandavia, 36, noticed that Fox, 47, was pointing the gun at her again, and she called 911 for help, the report stated.
The first officers to reach the 776-unit complex found Fox at home, where he said property managers gave him permission to enforce HOA rules. He also said he walked the grounds at night to hunt small animals with a 9mm pistol on his belt and a .40-caliber Glock short-barrel rifle over his shoulder, the report stated.
A Hamptons spokesperson could not be reached for comment Friday.
Diana Washburn, the Hamptons Community Association manager, told police Fox had the right to report and document HOA violations but was never given authority to approach people or carry a weapon while enforcing its rules and regulations, the report stated.
After Fox opened his gun safe, he gave police two pistols, the short-barrel rifle, a shotgun and a pair of "silencers," which require a special federal permits to own, the report stated. Police arrested him on charges of aggravated assault with a firearm and openly carrying a firearm.
On Friday morning, Fox was released from the Orange County Jail on $2,600 bond.
They're being led astray by marketers. The whole Sheepdog concept emerged (in my opinion) from two things. The first was the view that in an active shooter situation Police contain the situation before seeking to neutralize the suspect. That means that if a shooting occurs in the Mall, the people inside would be told to hide to the best of their ability because police would secure the location and then SWAT would come along and do a room by room search until they could stop the bastard.
Gun guys know that means much more bloodshed till cops got there which means that in order to survive you needed a civilian with the training and ability to put those wildmen down.
The second was the fact that we've had an industry popup with regards to firearms training. How do these companies stay in business? By pushing the Sheepdog concept and by inventing all kinds of weirdness that has no practical application (have you seen some of these shooting stances that are so popular?).
I digress. The active shooter scenario is valid and makes total sense. But it is an extremely narrow scenario. Properly applied the Sheepdog concept should be reserved for protecting you and your loved ones. What do I mean? You're in your car and someone tries to carjack you. Blast him. You see an old lady being punched in the head by a young punk. Kill him and take pictures. You will be a hero.
A weird teenager walking in a neighborhood? Not so much. You call police and let them handle it. A lady watching fireworks at a lake? Not so much.
I'm not the one to do it but we have got to get this Sheepdog concept under control or it will setback the gun community.
The only thing wrong with this theory is that hundreds of thousands of gun owners just counting CC,Hunter's, Etc...go about their daily life's with ZERO incidents. The % of just gun owners who choose to CC & NEVER have any altercations speaks for itself. There is nothing wrong with the current attitude among the huge % of gun owners, I think the lack off these type of incidents speak for themselves & speak loudly. I do enjoy your blog, Keep up the great work!
ReplyDeletethat is an excellent point but we've got to strive for perfection. the support of Zimmerman is a mistake in my opinion. i'd like for us all to adopt a sit on the sidelines and get ready for trouble approach.
DeleteSome lunkheads are itching for an excuse to unholster a firearm because it compensates for their inferiority in other areas: Thin wallet, small dick, whatever. These guys need a good dose of negative peer reinforcement.
ReplyDeleteIf I was a Sheriff, I'd offer firearms training for citizens above and beyond what they might get at a 8-hr ccw course.
Pound into their hands the responsibilities of carrying a firearm.
yeah that's where i was trying to go with this Paralus. like anonymous said, the vast majority of firearms owners are responsible but these jokers that think they're billy badass of the community watch are a problem.
DeleteIn those two example cases the individuals forgot about the word "watch". Your job in that case is to be an extra pair of eyes and report back to the police any issues. It is not to enforce. Those individuals have a police want-a-be complex. They believed they were more than they were.
ReplyDeleteMost gun people a I know are in the class you described, where they would defend themselves, family, and some innocent specifically, but would otherwise let the police handle the cases they should.
The police want-a-be nut jobs should be treated as the rare exception and not lumped into the normal gun community.
I help watch our street as do every neighbor, the trick is to decide what is normal and what is suspicious. A bunch of people shooting fireworks on the Fourth is NORMAL, a person sneaking around in the dark looking in windows is suspicious but normal. A man shooting his wife, friends and neighbors is NOT NORMAL. Kids laying drag, NORMAL, kids shooting jewelry store owners is suspicious.
ReplyDeleteZimmerman made over forty calls to the Police to report suspicious people, he never approached any of them or shot anyone.
To say stay in the car is to say curtail your freedom of choice and actions the next step is to ban neighborhood watches all together and surrender the streets, parking lots of apartments and condos and of homes in places where criminals walk the streets unmolested and unchallenged.
Trayvon had the same freedom that Zimmerman had, to stay in the car/apt. or to get out and check on the area or go for watermelon Arizona Ice tea and skittles.
Both had choices and with choices you live or die by the choices you make >George Jones<
Zimmerman was representing civilian's who were being robbed Trayvon was on school suspension for Drugs, burglars tools and stolen (alleged) jewels as well as beating (alleged) the school bus driver.
It's a matter of who was right and who was wrong decided by people who are on the left.
George Zimmerman's former teacher of criminal law considered George to be his best student and he is a black man.
The teacher stated, George Zimmerman did not want to be a cop, he wanted to be a Prosecuting attorney and Prosecutor.
Mr. Fox was an asshole and a nut with or without authority or a firearm, Mr. Zimmerman was just trying to do the right thing for his neighbors who were being robbed. I believe it's a mistake to compare Mr. Fox with Mr. Zimmerman.
Stayed in the car, stayed at daddy's girlfriends house, stayed out of trouble.
Coulda, woulda, shoulda, DIDN'T.
Choices, make them wisely.
This Sheepdog gimmick is just one more example of businesses making the world a shitty place with their advertising. They tell everyone that they're special and/or cool in some way and that they should buy this product to be more so. We are so damned inundated in this bullshit that before long people seem to be jaded to it. But its always there. And in some way, at some level or another it gets to everybody and without even knowing it people start believing the advertiser's message that they're special/cool and need to buy their shit. Next thing you know people all have their heads so far up their own ass feeding off their own bullshit and the continuing bull from the companies that their priorities and thinking are all fucked up and they go around looking like fools and/or acting like assholes. It gets to everybody from some angle or another, whether its fashion or tech gadgets, cars or music. I'm no exception, I haven't lived in he country or on a post for years but I still drive a Jeep. Yes I know they are practical reliable vehicles from personal experience, but the advertising bullshit gets to me too and I find myself starting to buy in to the fantasy of being some sort of rugged outdoorsman and think of cool upgrades like lift kits and shit even though I know I don't need them. The Sheepdog idea is just one marketing gimmick.
ReplyDeleteexactly! Zimmerman bought into it and now the gun blogs are all trying to get the gun community to defend this guy even though he was as wrong as 3 left feet. the guy screwed up and i'd bet money that he wasn't (Zimmerman) yelling on the tape, i'd bet it was Martin because Zimmerman was lining up for a kill shot on him. you don't scream in terror cause you're getting your ass kicked. you scream because someone is trying to line up their gun on your heart to blow it out your back.
DeleteZimmerman is scum. Zimmerman is pussy. i can smell it radiating off him. why so many of us is defending him is beyond me but we need to stop.
Your point about Zimmerman just staying in the car could have prevented the killing of Martin is speculative. How do you know Martin wouldn't have confronted Zimmerman while he was in the car? The real crime is whether Martin attacked Zimmerman without provocation. Following someone isn't a crime or provocative.
ReplyDeleteYour other point about Ramboism among CCW carriers is valid and gun owners will continue to be responsible and follow the law or they won't and our gun rights will chance as a result.
I live in coastal California so I have no CCW rights and I respect that. I would never carry outside my house nor go out of my house to confront someone while I'm armed. Thats a job for e police and I think most gun owners think the same way based upon the generally broad drop in gun violence over the last 30 years.
your statement tells the real truth of the matter.
Deleteyou say how do we know that Martin would not have attacked Zimmerman? because he was walking away when Zimmerman got out of his car and followed him! you talk about Ramboism but you excuse Zimmerman? that's crazy! i don't know you from Adam but your logic is faulty. either Zimmerman and the clown in Florida both fucked up or they're both good to go.
you want to know the real crime here? i mean besides Zimmerman committing murder? the real crime is that Martin should have been calling the police reporting a strange man following him instead of talking to the idiot on the phone. the real crime is that Zimmerman should be in jail for stalking and Martin should still be alive.
instead we have gun owners defending a fraud. defending a clown. defending an idiot. and you want to know why? because many gun owners see themselves as Sheepdogs. if they admit that Zimmerman fucked up that will mean that the Sheepdog concept needs to be rethought.
THAT'S WHY GUNOWNERS ARE DEFENDING THIS IDIOT!!!
"Following someone isn't a crime or provocative."
DeleteWow....
You need to read what people say and stop using bully tactics to express yourself.
ReplyDeleteNowhere did I defend Zimmerman. I said your point was pointless
Because you speculated about future events and you assume as facts
What hasn't been proved or even alleged by the prosecution.
Zimmerman walking to the car or away from the car is legal no matter what. What the case is about is if Zimmerman looked for a fight, had malice towards Martin then used his gun as a result.
Following someone isn't a crime and that doesn't in itself prove intent to provoke. Nobody as the right to attack someone because they think they are being followed.
If you bothered to read you will see I said I'd never go out of my house armed looking to confront someone. I wouldn't have done what Zimmerman did as a result.
Even though I didn't say it, I will accept whatever the jury decides.
Unlike you who know all the facts and no the right decision.
i read what you said and if you think this is bully tactics then you're as much a pussy as Zimmerman is.
DeleteSol you are right on so many levels. Either Zimmerman got out looking for a confrontation of some type, we can debate about it being verbal or a physical fight or not, or he just had no idea what he was doing when following Martin. By this I mean if I was following you thinking you may be doing something wrong I would be on the opposite side of the street on the phone with 911 just keeping you within my sight. So at night and in the rain that should give at least half a block distance between us. So plenty of time for me to retreat if you turn and verbally engage me or try to confront me. His whole point of following Martin was to let police know where Martin was at not to engage him.
ReplyDeleteAll the 'Zimmerman haters' need not worry. They will sacrifice/convict Zimmerman to appease the people like the New Black Panther Army & the black community (the large majority) in Sanford & the state who have repeatedly stated their intention to 1)Murder Zimmerman, 2)"Burn this motherfucker down" 3)Publicly issued a "Bounty" on his head. They have replaced the Chief of Police with a black Chief who is taking his officers door to door in the black community ASKING them to PLEASE don't burn anything down or break the law! LMAO!!! Just sayin'...........
ReplyDeleteyou sound scared. are you?
DeleteI am a United States Marine...What do you think Solomon??? How do you get "sound scared" from stating facts!? I damn sure have been scared before, But this shit don't fit the category!!!
ReplyDeleteread your post. that's how i get scared. you saddle up and do whatever it is you got to do. but don't expect for me to ride with you on this one. Zimmerman is a fat little pudgy pussy that can't hack it in the real world so he bought a gun to be a man. instead of going against a full grown man he chose to go against a boy.
Deleteand you defend him.
yeah. sound like pussy to me.
Speaking of Bully tactics...
DeleteLook at it like this. We lose a wannabe and a scumbag. A win win for the public.. Trying to read more into this is asinine.
ReplyDeleteSolomon, I am the "anonymous" who posted first on this subject instead of "prbreech" simply because it was easier. I look at each matter I post on & use common sense, Any FACTS that are known and go from there. First of all I made an OBSERVATION not a defense when I stated why they will convict Zimmeran. I would think you could fucking figure out the difference!!!How the hell you got "sounding scared" from that...who knows! I wont argue with you, If you think Pussy can piss me off........LOL! Takes a lot more than that. I do enjoy your blog but calling people you don't even know Pussy & other assorted names simply for disagreeing with you takes away much from an otherwise very promising Blog.
ReplyDelete