Thanks to everyone that passed along this news...inbox was full when I checked it!
So it seems that the F-15 is the last man standing in the S. Korean fighter competition. I wonder what the implications are.
if i was the S. Koreans i'd simply go for the most modern system sets possible...big aesa, fuel efficient-powerful engines, awesome displays, fbw, drop the conformals, get a nice setup on the pricing for the -9X+ and maybe make the europeans feel better by buying some meteors and call it a day.
I would think the F-15 Silent Eagle would incorporate all the stealth features and Conformal Fuel Tanks as well. If the South Koreans are going for the F-15SE, that means they want a low cost Stealth fighter.
i'm not convinced of two things. the efficacy of stealth and whether or not its essential or even practical on the modern battlefield and two whether its affordable across an entire of fleet of fighters.
with that being said, i don't see how the F-15SE which still has development work to be done could possibly have met the price target set by the S. Koreans.
is stealth essential beyond first day of war? is it needed beyond the mission of deep interdiction? do you need it for naval strike against shipping? how about against naval targets? are we going to send planes or are planes going to be the delivery system for long range anti-ship missiles? does the same apply against immobile land targets?
in those situations does a manned plane beat a long range missile or UAV?
i think the S. Koreans have done a study and come up with different conclusions.
Back in the 90's when the USAF was hoping to buy 800 F-22s and 2000+ JSF (as it was known then), there was talk about the price of F-22 being way too high. Some of the critics were floating the idea of re-engine options for the F-15, specifically, taking the F-22's Pratt and Whitney F119 and sticking them in an F-15. They basically said after chancing some dimensions in new-build F-15s, you could stick the F119s in them and get the benefits of supercruise.
I wonder if someone, somewhere is taking a look at a F-15SE with PW F119s. or an F-16 with an F135.
i'll do you one better. take the design specs from the X-32 with the swiveling nozzles and stick them into a new built harrier. crazy i know but think of how that thing would leap off the deck!
Air Power publication mentioned that the Saudis are getting a new wing with the new F15s they have on order, stronger with extra pylons, maybe up to 12 AAMs could be carried. S Korea should order that baddest F15 with all the goodies and squeeze Boeing to put some LO measures PLUS a lower price than LMT F35. S Korea doesn't need the F35 right now anyways, they can wait for a few years, F15/F16 is plenty enough to take care of Kim Nkorea. Just wait a few years, let Japan and company waste their money now on F35s, in the 2020s, the Skoreans will get a better price and/or a F35 with all development and weapons working, all the software bugs sorted out, there is no reason for them militarily to buy it now, let other nations be the suckers.
South Korea doesn't need to beat Russia, it just needs to be able to beat North Korea and be able to hit above it's weight class when it comes to China.
That means they need some level of stealth built into their next air superiority fighter to reach some level of parity against the J20 if they want to do it themselves.
Or they could focus on dominating the airspace against North Korea, and rely on US F-22's and F-35's to pose the parity threat against the J-20. From the looks of the budget talks on this fighter bid, it looks like this is the option Seoul is currently pursuing.
A mix of F15s and F16s fighters along with credible AWAC and EA aircraft for counter radar/comms would be able to put a stomping on the Norks. Dominance isn't about having some "superweapon" it is about having the right mix of weapons to handle everything well. Want stealth? Give up weapons payload. Want weapons payload? Give up stealth.
Given that the IADS network of the Norks is "extensive" a bid on stealth could be seen as a sign of aggression, where a top of the line 4th or 5th gen traditional fighter would be seen as defensive.
Korea has a lot of options, but my guess is that they will choose the lowest priced politically palatable option, which will preclude the F35 altogether.
I would not be surprised if the F-15SE is the choice for South Korea
ReplyDeleteif i was the S. Koreans i'd simply go for the most modern system sets possible...big aesa, fuel efficient-powerful engines, awesome displays, fbw, drop the conformals, get a nice setup on the pricing for the -9X+ and maybe make the europeans feel better by buying some meteors and call it a day.
DeleteI would think the F-15 Silent Eagle would incorporate all the stealth features and Conformal Fuel Tanks as well. If the South Koreans are going for the F-15SE, that means they want a low cost Stealth fighter.
Deletei'm not convinced of two things. the efficacy of stealth and whether or not its essential or even practical on the modern battlefield and two whether its affordable across an entire of fleet of fighters.
Deletewith that being said, i don't see how the F-15SE which still has development work to be done could possibly have met the price target set by the S. Koreans.
is stealth essential beyond first day of war? is it needed beyond the mission of deep interdiction? do you need it for naval strike against shipping? how about against naval targets? are we going to send planes or are planes going to be the delivery system for long range anti-ship missiles? does the same apply against immobile land targets?
in those situations does a manned plane beat a long range missile or UAV?
i think the S. Koreans have done a study and come up with different conclusions.
Here's the Promo video from Boeing on the F-15 Silent Eagle
Deletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kn6nx_GGERQ
Here's Boeing's video on the F-15SE missile launch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CRF53SNzHA
I would not be surprise, if Congress kills the F-35A in favor of the F-15SE or upgrading the F-16 to Block 60 standards.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteBack in the 90's when the USAF was hoping to buy 800 F-22s and 2000+ JSF (as it was known then), there was talk about the price of F-22 being way too high. Some of the critics were floating the idea of re-engine options for the F-15, specifically, taking the F-22's Pratt and Whitney F119 and sticking them in an F-15. They basically said after chancing some dimensions in new-build F-15s, you could stick the F119s in them and get the benefits of supercruise.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if someone, somewhere is taking a look at a F-15SE with PW F119s. or an F-16 with an F135.
i'll do you one better. take the design specs from the X-32 with the swiveling nozzles and stick them into a new built harrier. crazy i know but think of how that thing would leap off the deck!
DeleteActually, no decision has been announced.
DeleteBoeing wants S. Korea to pay for the (hypothetical) SE's development costs :)
Air Power publication mentioned that the Saudis are getting a new wing with the new F15s they have on order, stronger with extra pylons, maybe up to 12 AAMs could be carried. S Korea should order that baddest F15 with all the goodies and squeeze Boeing to put some LO measures PLUS a lower price than LMT F35. S Korea doesn't need the F35 right now anyways, they can wait for a few years, F15/F16 is plenty enough to take care of Kim Nkorea. Just wait a few years, let Japan and company waste their money now on F35s, in the 2020s, the Skoreans will get a better price and/or a F35 with all development and weapons working, all the software bugs sorted out, there is no reason for them militarily to buy it now, let other nations be the suckers.
ReplyDeleteSouth Korea doesn't need to beat Russia, it just needs to be able to beat North Korea and be able to hit above it's weight class when it comes to China.
ReplyDeleteThat means they need some level of stealth built into their next air superiority fighter to reach some level of parity against the J20 if they want to do it themselves.
Or they could focus on dominating the airspace against North Korea, and rely on US F-22's and F-35's to pose the parity threat against the J-20. From the looks of the budget talks on this fighter bid, it looks like this is the option Seoul is currently pursuing.
A mix of F15s and F16s fighters along with credible AWAC and EA aircraft for counter radar/comms would be able to put a stomping on the Norks. Dominance isn't about having some "superweapon" it is about having the right mix of weapons to handle everything well. Want stealth? Give up weapons payload. Want weapons payload? Give up stealth.
Given that the IADS network of the Norks is "extensive" a bid on stealth could be seen as a sign of aggression, where a top of the line 4th or 5th gen traditional fighter would be seen as defensive.
Korea has a lot of options, but my guess is that they will choose the lowest priced politically palatable option, which will preclude the F35 altogether.