Many of my liberal readers are going to take issue with me but I listened to this several times and each time it rubbed me raw.
At about the 30 second mark the President says "my military" and "our team". Many will blow that off to his speech patterns. I consider it extremely telling. If you want to see a "little Hitler" complex, simply observe a man that is given the power of command without accepting the responsibility of it.
I really believe this entire episode will end badly. Bob sent me a link to an article that is telling. In short we prepare for phase III but not phase IV of conflicts...in other words its easy to do the kinetic stuff, its hard to deal with the aftermath. As rushed as this has been, there is no way anyone has properly ran and planned for all the scenarios if this goes sideways (and moving a MEU(-) into the area is hardly comforting). Thank God Syria is on Europes doorsteps and not ours.
what a dammed amateur he is....with all his support, years of cultivating and preparation, he can't even play the puppet role anymore....even Dubya could carry the puppet role through to the end of his two terms.
ReplyDeleteThe problem here is, if we let this pass, we accept the use of Chemical agents used on civilians, if we as a koalition step up, we risk WW 3!
ReplyDeleteThe real problem is that there is not one person in the western armed forces who wants to go to syria, most are saying "let the airforce and navy sort it" but reallity is that we will only cause more suffering if we do the "kinetic stuff" and not the "Hearts and minds" kind of stability enforcing ops.
Next problem is that the European forces are stretched thin after 10 years in Afghanistan, they dont have the economy and strength that the US forces have!
this is a shitty situation, handled by fools and fought by heroes...... its basicly not possible to win this one!
But hey, our politicians say we are ready to support, so fetch the sorry leftovers, worn down machines and soldier on!
Here comes the vikings!
yeah and while the Syrians are wailing on TV for us to come in and save them as soon as we do we'll be seeing roadside bombs from hell and a insurgency that will make what went on in Iraq look like a sunny day.
Deletei don't ever recall words actually backing a President into a corner...and quite honestly his words could have been moderated if he was a bit more humble. if he had said redline meant that he would consult with Congress and allies and determine a course of action then we wouldn't be where we are.
but instead he doubled down and now we're facing a choice. do we choose bad option 1 or bad option 2.
SGHolm
ReplyDeleteFor 8 years, Sadam rained chemical hell down on Iran.
Far from stopping him, we made absolutely sure he didnt run out.
Did I miss world war 3? Or is there a 30 year delay?
ok. i gotta say thats a damn good point. but the difference is we had the cold war going on, we had two arab nations fighting each other and the only western involvement was to use iraq as a proxy.
Deletewhat happens if Russian advisers are operating Syrian defenses and they take down a plane or get lucky with a ship?
What the West did in the past is far from acceptable, and is a major part of our problems now!
DeleteThe situation in syria is that if we bomb Syria, Hezbolla will respond on Israel (no one knows why, but they will) with support from Iran, Israel being the nation they are will do the natural and respond, this can spark a major conflict between the 3 countries.
Syria, in all its wisdom will most likely shoot what ever they have at whatever they can hit sparking situations with turkey, jordan or Israel.
Russia have placed warships nearby, I dont think they want a direct action conflict, that said, the russians are known to have som pretty "independant" thinking warchiefs and a president or whatever he is this week (Putin) who is borderline insane.
It is a VERY delegate situation, and the wrong action taken by any part could start something terrible!
I still think we have to take action and stop crimes towards humanity, if we can!
And using nerve gas on civilians is a crime!
TrT: good point indeed. Plus why are we so concerned about gas use now and we were not then?
DeleteHell during that Iran/Iraq war the USS Stark was hit and Sailors died yet nothing was said about stopping the slaughter of innocents and vengeance for our dead.
"I still think we have to take action and stop crimes towards humanity, if we can!
And using nerve gas on civilians is a crime!"
Yes the fact that Syria has never signed any chemical weapons treaties nor considers those chemicals anything but standard weapons just like the AK- bullet and SCUD missiles may mean in Syria and as far as the world is concerned gas use by and in Syria is in fact legal, though heinous and unethical to down right mean.
I do not condone it's use, but hey I'm just a wee mushroom being kept in the dark and fed bullshit. What after all do I know.
I do take offense at labeling Islamo's as Humanity though!
I jest SGHolmgard, I jest in bad taste I know.
Well the Geneva convention can be dragged by force upon any nation, if the UN decides to...... problem is, the UN is a bunch of weak scared, yet angry and ego centered nations acting by a ruleset that makes it impossible to do any real "saving" of nations!
DeleteI see any weapon pointed by a soldier towards a civilian as being wrong that being gas, AK or SCUD!
And I wont agree nor will I disagree on the islamos! but remember we all have risen from being a more brutal culture!
And we are all just fed bullshit!
Sol
ReplyDeleteMy point was entirely limited to "we cant allow chemical weapons to go unpunished".
We have done previously, I'm not convinced we would have balked at tactical nukes being used, a couple of Davy Crocketts, used against break throughs.
What would we (you) do if a Chinese missile hit a US Assault Ship is a bloody good question, and a worrying one.
I wouldnt be at all surprised if China has a team or two on the ground to pick up some Intel. Its not beyond the realms of possibility that they have a couple of missile teams hoping to take that shot too. No point building all those missiles and not testing them.
And what then, unless the US grabs the team, China can deny all knowledge.
I wouldn't put it past Putin to slip in a few S-300 batteries with Russian 'advisors' to help operate them.
DeleteThese potential strikes are little more than a superficial show of power from an American president backed into a corner by his "red line" declaration about chemical weapons use in Syria. If Obama had any real balls, he would back off. This attack will be a terrible mistake, without a positive outcome either for Syria or her neighbors, of which I am one. A very very bad idea. You don't always have to "do something."
ReplyDeleteIndeed! Is there for instance a Syrian Samson Option?
ReplyDeleteI hate to say it, but the Imperial Presidency needs to be trimmed back to its Constitutional role. Congress should have sole war-making powers and oversee how the Executive branch prosecutes said war.
ReplyDeleteWe have seen 50 years of war-making powers gotten into some real multi-year clusterfucks that have done nothing by weaken us and indebted us to foreign powers.
Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan have been dumb, expensive mistakes.
totally agree. something broke badly in our system of government when we suddenly decided that one person had the right to order their countrymen to war. it was wrong when Bush had the power, its wrong now that Obama has it.
Deletethe most worrying thing is that the "power" is spreading to other sections of our democracy and i see no effective pushback from congress.
'Thank God Syria is on Europes doorsteps and not ours'.It doesn't matter where Syria is, its not threat to anyone, especially not Europe. If anything the present leadership in Syria have kept the area stable for decades. Overthrowing their government will open the floodgates to Islamic extremists. It is interference in Tunisia and Libya (who were no threat to the west) that have allowed unwanted elements into those areas.Just look at the disaster of Iraq, a hot bed of violence and extremism where once before it was a bulwark against Iran and others.This is the price we pay for carrying out badly planned military actions in that region.What we do now will come back and bite us in the ass.
ReplyDeleteThere are no good guys on either side in Syria and the events there are not worth a single US or any other nations servicemen being killed. Politicians in the US and UK have been jumping up and down for a war but its blown up in their faces. The UK prime minister has been humiliated and it has shown how weak and full of bluff Obama is.The US is so terrified of acting alone once the Brits said they wouldn't get involved, it just showed how much America has declined. It doesn't matter how many guns you have, if the person about to pull the trigger has no balls then numbers mean nothing.
YEAH. thank God Syria is on Europes doorsteps.
Deletethe US isn't terrified of acting alone. its just in this case there is no American interest. humantarianism be damned. show me one Syrian child running around and screaming for help and i can show you an American child that is living in poverty.
its past time that we take care of our own. and watch your tone. America hasn't declined, just our leadership. we're a land of lions being led by a liberal sheep. push us and we'll still fuck this planet up.
Decline is not measured in a nations military forces.Those that are in charge are to blame I agree. Lions are being led by sheep is a fair point, unfortunately there are no lions on the horizon from any quarter who will lead the nation.
DeleteNo one can dispute the point that decline has started. The economy has collapsed and debt far exceeds GNP with no hope of debts ever being paid off, China and others are rapidly catching up and no longer fear the west they once did. Regional powers will start to flex their muscles and encroach on US interests. Military capability will not decline just the will to use it.The Roman Empire still had a capable army until the very end, it withered and died from within and its enemies grew in strength.
I don't don't doubt we could still fuck this planet up, but lets be honest, the most likely scenario is we will be one regional power amongst many in 40 years time and we will no longer be able to act with impunity. The future will ne regional powers like China, Russia, Europe and Brazil who will squeeze the US. Obama and those that follow him will not buck this trend, the USA will not fall or go out in a bang, it will be like all empires before.Britain was in a similar position 80 years ago, it was the top dog, but everyone just caught up, it didn't face military defeat, it was the growing economies of Germany , France, Russia and the USA that forced it to realise that it was now one power among many, the same situation faces the US today
http://rt.com/news/ballistic-launch-eastern-mediterranean-343/
ReplyDeletewe just played them lol