via UTSanDiego.
Danielle Atwell, one of the widows of the two Yuma Marines killed in action with 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing (Forward), was told this week the investigation is finished and she could be informed of the findings as early as Friday. Atwell and Donnella Raible, the other widow, both said they are frustrated at how long it took to investigate the Sept. 14, 2012 attack and that no one has been held accountable.A couple of things.
The promotion and third star of a former Camp Pendleton general is hanging on the outcome, as well as the careers of other senior military officials who were responsible for base security when insurgents infiltrated NATO's regional headquarters.
The investigation by U.S. Central Command focused on whether commanders were negligent because 15 heavily armed Taliban fighters were able to penetrate the base, in what was their most brazen attack of the war. Amid the drawdown of forces, security cutbacks had caused guard towers to be manned in some cases by nothing more than target dummies or poorly-trained Tongan troops who often napped on duty, several senior military sources told U-T San Diego.
* The wheels of justice turn slower the higher in rank you are. If you're a LT leading your men on patrol outside the wire and you make a mistake you'll be hung out to dry with the Commandant himself saying he wants you "crushed". If you're a General in command of base security and the enemy infiltrates your location, destroys a squadron of airplanes, the squadron commander and an NCO killed, and it'll take awhile for them to figure out what should be done. RHIP. Rank has its privileges.
* MAN UP! Don't slam the Brits. DO NOT ACCUSE the Tongans (funny how they're being blamed now). Unless its changed, Marine doctrine is to provide our own security even when operating with other forces (I've seen it cause heartburn with our Army brothers). What form that takes varies. It might be so simple as to insist that our personnel always carry a firearm...pistol, carbine or rifle...at all times. It might take the form of an interior guard. Whatever the case may be, its never the responsibility of another unit for Marine security.
* My heart goes out to LtCol Rable's wife AND the family of Sgt Atwell that lost their loved ones that day. My heart also goes out to those Marines that are killed and injured everyday but aren't involved in as high profile an incident.
If Marine Corps standards were applied to camp defense then this never would have happened. Active patrols outside the wire would have been ongoing. Observation posts inside and OUTSIDE the camp would have been manned and active. A buffer zone would have been established where any unidentified person/vehicle would be challenged.
That's the standard in a war zone. The general in charge of security did not meet that standard shouldn't be promoted and should be forced to retire (at the very least) for not meeting it.
Make no mistake about it. The powers that be are hiding behind CENTCOM but this is a Marine Corps issue, the standards that should be enforced are Marine Corps standards and any evaluation of events that doesn't take those standards into account to determine wrongdoing is a travesty of justice.
I'm always one for holding generals responsible, however, I wonder if he raised these protests and was over ruled?
ReplyDeletePerhaps if he did and was over ruled, he should have resigned in protest, but no one will want him to stand up at a court martial and say, "I was ordered to weaken our defences by (insert white house staffer), I informed him of the risk but he ordered me to weaken our defences"
i believe that Marine Corps leadership has become highly politicized but this is i would imagine, beyond the notice of even the most meddling staffer.
Deletethis was pure "jointness" run amok. by that i suspect that everyone involved got to a point where they forgot that they were at war. the pilots fly missions, the mechanic turn wrenches and at the end of the day you grab a burger at whatever shop is at that base it kinda begins to look more like Yuma than it does Afghanistan.
that's my guess anyway.
Sol,
ReplyDeleteObviously you haven't deployed in OIF/OEF. This level of security is not uncommon. When I was in Iraq, and when I trained Marines for Afghanistan, the standard was:
-Every Marine carries a weapon w/ 1 magazine-the aviation Marines had their weapons and fought back, as expected.
-ECPs manned
-Interior security provided by QRF as needed
-Perimeter security provided by surveillance equipment
Flying squadrons do not have enough personnel to provide their own security to the level that would have prevented this attack, at least not while being expected to keep aircraft flying. Choices were made based on risk assessments and personnel available. If we tried to protect against every possible contingency we'd be broke in a week. The only way to provide the security you want is with more bodies, and that decision was made at the political level.
Before anyone goes OPSEC on me, open source gives more info than that.
wrong cowboy. the airwing has military police assigned to provide that level of security. whether they were brought along or not is in question. not whether they could have met standards. additionally you must have served in the green zone because outside of that luxury setup what i'm talking about WAS standard in Iraq in Marine units. last but not least yeah. perimeter security is augmented by surveillance equipment AND foot patrols.
Deletewhat happened is obvious. they got a threat assessment that said that an attack was unlikely and relaxed. since when does a Marine commander plan for best and not worse case scenario?
spare me the nonsense please.
Sol,
DeleteYou always have to be so argumentative. Real mature with the name-calling. Go ahead and block me, that's what you usually do when you can't make an educated argument.
The Air Wing has exactly one MWSS deployed. That is less than 50 MPs. I was the Air Ops chief for the Wing, I know exactly how many MPs they have and what they do.
So glad you know the conditions at all the FOBs in 2008-2009 better than me. I only spent time at about 20 of them. And I spent some time in the Green Zone too, so I know the difference-the Green Zone had MORE security!
said you were wrong and i called you cowboy. that's waaaaay easier than i go on the other guys cause i gave you the benefit of being there and done that. how about you return the favor. how about you acknowledge the fact that a infantry unit was also assigned to base security. give me a second and i'll find out which one but i think it was either elements of 1/7 or 2/7 so spare me please.
Deletei'm not operating in a vacuum. i have a bit of knowledge and experience myself.
Fair enough-first time you've surprised me, well played. I stand by my stance that the commander was left in a difficult position by the politically based manpower cuts. From the WaPo, 4/20/13:
Delete"In December 2011, 325 Marines were assigned to patrol the area, according to the senior U.S. officer with knowledge of security measures. In the month before the attack, however, the number was cut back to about 100, the officer said."
100 grunts to cover Leatherneck. Do the math on that patrol/QRF schedule and area to be covered and it is obvious there weren't enough of them or the MPs to prevent this. And even while there were 325 patrolling, the enemy got their recon done-they certainly spent more than 30 days planning that attack.
Same article quotes some officers who state that there were plenty of Marines with time to stand security-but I would bet you a dollar all of them would say that THEIR Marines were too busy to stand post. If they saw the problem, why didn't they do something about it? Monday morning quarterbacks.
i don't disagree with your stance. we know that someone fucked up. my point is two fold. first that security wasn't up to Marine standards and blaming allies for it is just scapegoating and second that like you said, Marines are now passing the buck but their is no need (unless they're worried about a bad OER)....the buck stops with the general in charge of security. politics be damned. if he saw that it was inadequate then toss your stars on the table but if he knew better and let politics be his guide then he's as responsible as the sniveling civilian that ordered it.
DeleteIf Centcom punts on this one, I'd love to see the Senate investigate it and deny the promotion.
ReplyDeletethey won't. that would expose an ugly part of the war that Obama has been in charge of. that makes it political and that makes the general bullet proof. destroy the command staff when someone fucks up on the gun line and you have an accident but when you have a unit rendered combat ineffective its no ones fault.
Deletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0CwfvpgySo
ReplyDeleteBagram Batman. you're anticipating me. i was in the process of locating all those videos that the Wing put out dancing and bullshitting at Camp Leatherneck that had me pissed beyond recognition but everyone was telling me to relax about it.
Deletea few SNCOs showed up in them too. maybe if they weren''t playing grab ass they could have found time to protect THEIR FUCKING BASE!
that's a leadership issue and that's what happens when you have what happens all too often. leaders want to be liked rather than take care of their Marines by sometimes being a dick. oh and the time to be a dick isn't when your guys fuck up. its time to be a dick before your guys get in trouble so you won't have to deal with charge sheets.
but its a new Corps so what the fuck do i know.
In Gulf War 1 the Royal Scots went everywhere with rifles and helmets. The battalion's CO wanted his men to know they were at war and act as such. From what I gather Bastion is a lot like any garrison here at home in the West. And many who have gone to war in Afghanistan have never left the base and apart from heat and dust could be anywhere on the globe. I am civilian it is not for me to say whether this is good or bad. But intuition tells me it is slack. Sorry.
DeleteSol
ReplyDeleteYou said what I meant :)
That the posts were (effectively) unmanned was a political decision. Personally, I believe the OIC should have resigned over the matter, but theres no way in hell he'll be punished, he can drag too many others down with him.