Wednesday, October 30, 2013

F-35. Losing sales in the Navy to the Super Hornet & Growler.


When it comes to future tech I look to NAVAIR to see what they're doing and what they're buying.

Looks like they're buying E/A-18G Growlers.

It kinda makes sense.  We've been hearing grumblings that old fashioned airwarfare is out.  Electronic warfare is the new "coin of the realm"...that Growlers will be the heavy hitters when naval aviators go at it again.  So the news isn't a surprise.  Check this out from the St. Louis Post Dispatch.
One of the St. Louis area’s biggest assembly lines may be getting a new lease on life.
The Navy is considering buying 36 more F/A-18 Super Hornets, according to a notice posted this month on a federal procurement website. That move would sustain 5,000 jobs building the fighter jets at Boeing Co. in Hazelwood and suppliers around the St. Louis area for at least an additional 18 months.
The Super Hornet is the Navy’s premier fighter jet, but it’s nearing the end of its production line as the service begins to shift over to Lockheed Martin’s F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. The Navy’s last order is set to be made in the current fiscal year, ending Sept. 30, 2014, with the last plane due for delivery in 2016.
But amid Pentagon budget cuts and delays to the F-35 program, Boeing has been pitching the Super Hornet as a cheaper and more reliable alternative. And it appears the Navy may be listening.

Earlier this month, the Naval Air Services Command quietly posted a “pre-solicitation” notice on a federal contracting website, declaring its intent to “solicit and negotiate” a fixed-price contract for 36 more F/A-18 Super Hornets and E/A-18 Growlers. At $55 million per plane, the contract would cost roughly $2 billion.
55 million dollars per plane.

I'm more convinced than ever that the Super Hornet is the plane the Marine Corps needs (at least for its carrier mission) AND can afford.  Upgrades both in the open and classified should keep it competitive.  Besides.  The mission is to support the Marine on the ground.  Not to fight the deep air battle tagging behind the USAF.

If leadership and Marine Air forget that, then Marine Air is doomed.  The Corps will survive, Marine Air won't.  And if they're not supporting Marine Ground then why do we need them?

17 comments :

  1. http://csis.org/event/future-marine-corps

    The Gen repeatedly states the F-35B is the necessary for the USMC to have a proper role in Air Sea Battle. Strongly recommend that you watch.

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    1. watched and posted about it a couple of days ago. JB sent me the link.

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    2. Damn how did i miss that? Ignore my other comment as well then...

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  2. Exactly. If they aren't supporting the ground mission, then they are setting themselves up to be absorbed by Naval aviation in a time when the Navy is looking to save bucks.

    The Navy is bound to start asking, "Hey, you guys fly the same mission profiles we do more and more often. What happened to supporting the grunts? You know, if you aren't using those planes and pilots to drop bombs to support grunts, you won't mind if we take your fast-movers and rebadge them as Navy."

    Unless there is a specific mission for Marine Air for which only they train and specialize, they become an attractive line-item in the Navy's budget to be zeroed out.

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    1. spot on. if the Navy is under pressure to cut carriers then that means they're cutting squadrons. that means Marine Air is no longer a part of carrier air which means fewer squadrons needed. Marine AIr loses that mission. Marine Ground is begging for support. F-35's can't provide it. Marine Artillery takes up the slack, cost cutters come. why do you need F-35's? the answer is "i don't know" and another couple of squadrons are cut.

      Marine AIr finally gets the message but the damage is done. fast movers are for all purposes gone from the Corps and we finally wise up and start tailoring our air needs on supporting ground units. AGAIN!

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  3. This looks like more death spiral stuff.

    More Rhinos means less F-35s, and at a slower rate. Prices go up, sales drop, etc, etc.

    Time for other services to start looking for a plan B. What's the USAF going to do if the JSF tanks?

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    1. the USAF will buy modified and upgraded F-16s and get started on a gen 6 fighter. its not hard to figure, hell i'd bet half the generals are beggin for that option.

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    2. The USAF will most certainly NOT be buying more F-16s.

      They are the biggest stealth proponents int he world.

      A 6th gen jet MAY fly before 2020 in prototype form, one an EXTREMELY rapid development schedule, if work was started tomorrow.

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  4. The Super Hornets are Navy's Plan B, especially with the F-35C's problems and cost, and especially the tail hook which still doesn't work and may not work w/o heavy redesign -- the hook is too close to the wheels, it's reported. (Tailhook Scandal 2.0)

    The Growlers are necessary with either the Lightnings or the Hornets. Admiral Greenert isn't a great believer in F-35 stealth, to put it mildly. Greenert: “All the stealth in the world ain’t gonna penetrate everything.” Stealth certainly shrinks an aircraft’s radar return, but it cannot eliminate it. So, skeptical of stealth, the Navy has built up its fleet of Growlers. For Navy, it’s the Growler aircraft, not the F-35, that will be the cutting edge of future Naval strikes against future “anti-access area denial” defenses.

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  5. An eye candy for the F-35 bashers.

    An unauthorized pic taken at Japanese MoD's F-3 program seminar. This is shaping out to be a killer jet, and the F-35's debacle helped to push the F-3 forward.

    http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/818272487.jpg
    http://mar.2chan.net/cgi/f/src/1383058042058.jpg

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    1. That reminds me that in the past six months, I've seen two blurbs that contain lamentations over the cancellation of the Lavi.

      Coupled with indigenous fighter development programs in ROK, Japan and Turkey, I think a lot of folks are catching on to the fact that American technology is so expensive, it is prohibitive. They have realized that there has to be a better way than the cock-up that LM and the Pentagon have made of the F35.

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  6. More good news for F-35 bashers.

    The Korean president stopped the Defense Ministry's scheduled announcement of F-35 on October 29th.

    The president, who is the first born heir of a military dictator but herself not a military person, tried to stay out of the selection process and has instead entrusted the decision on her generals. Now that her generals screwed up, she is intervening in the process instead. Based on sources, she wants to split the FX into two parts, a 40 jet contest mostly focused on "economic benefits" related to the KFX project between the F-15 and the Typhoon, and a pledge that Korea would buy 20 F-35s when it becomes ready n the future to appease the US officials who were going nuts when the Silent Eagle because the sole qualified bidder.

    Based on this development, the Typhoon suddenly has a very strong chance to win the reformed FX contest, because the Europeans are offering to let Koreans take whatever the parts they need from the Typhoon to build the KFX. Unlike the F-15, the parts transferability between the Typhoon and the KFX is high because they are similar sized jets and the Typhoon makes a perfect parts donor jet. Both EADS and Boeing officials at the local ADEX defense show are discussing this run-off contest between the Typhoon and the F-15 right now.

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  7. Why is the Navy buying F/A-18s?

    On Nov 11, 2010 the first Navy F-35C Carrier Variant arrived at Pax River NAS. Since that day almost three years ago, the F-35 test fleet has racked up over 10,000 flight hours. The tech people have been busy at Edwards, the Air Force has been fully occupied at Eglin, and the Marines have flown off land and from a mini-carrier.

    But none of those 10,000 hours have been off of a carrier, and probably won't be for the foreseeable future.

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    1. Spot on Don. I think Navy is getting a little worried about trapping test. You have to figure that by now they have computer modelling results, come on, how much time does it take to fabricate a new tail?????

      In other F35 news, I think LMT is getting nervous. They need to get this thing in serious production mode and in service before it gets slashed.....

      http://finance.yahoo.com/news/pentagons-f-35-office-eyes-235449838.html

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    2. Considering the time and money spent on that F35 bulkhead redesign, I'd bet there are some LM folks who will be closing their eyes with their fingers crossed, wincing, hoping there aren't any cracks in the frame during arrested landings.

      That would kill the program for the Navy and that would jeopardize the whole F35 program.

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  8. It looks like the US Navy is backing out very slowly on the F-35 program, if their buying more super hornets and growlers. If that's happening, it's a sure sign that the F-35 is a doomed project and that other people should be looking to F-35 like alternatives.

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  9. USN was always smart to have kept F18 line hot. I have said it for years, biggest mistake USAF made was just handling over the entire procurement of jet fighters to LMT, USAF should have figured out a way to have kept buying even just a few F15s or F16s every year, would have kept LMT a little bit more honest and now they wouldn't be so desperate for new airframes....

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