For a while now, Turkey’s controversial missile deal with a sanctioned Chinese weapons firm has attracted much criticism from NATO and the US. Turkey has suggested extending the deadline for rival offers, and has openly challenged rival firms to place a better bid.Wow.
However, reports according to Turkey's Yeni Safak newspaper now suggest that the US, who has objected to the deal under the excuse that Chinese and NATO radar systems cannot be integrated and could possibly leave NATO systems vulnerable to viruses, is now claiming that Turkey’s joint project with Swedish firm Saab to produce ‘a national fighter jet’, saying Turkey’s efforts to produce its own fighter jet is a breach of the F-35 inclusive JSF program.
It seems that this program has reached a point where even the thought of a rising power attempting to develop its own defense aerospace industry is a threat to it.
The arrogance here is breathtaking. The Turks are a proud people. I'm surprised that they haven't told the office to pound sand....but maybe I shouldn't be. If history is a guide they'll bribe, offer increased incentives etc...to get them back on board.
Unlike the HQ-9 deal, the TFX project's hard to stop because the partner nation is Sweden. The best that the US could demand is that Turkey must not use the technology it received as a part of the JSF Industrial Participation program in the TFX project, making the TFX project prohibitively expensive with additional developments.
ReplyDeleteThe difference between Turkey and Korea/Japan is that Turkey doesn't have the kind of industrial sophistication found in East Asian countries. This could make Turkey talk to Japan or Korea in joining their national fighter projects, which are also looking for additional partners to share the production output.
Turkey reportedly went with the China air defense system because of China’s offer of transferring the design technology to Turkey.
ReplyDeleteOn the JSF Turkey signed a memorandum of understanding (AKA production agreement) in 2006 to purchase F-35. However Turkey's JSF orders have been put on hold because of increased costs and because the U.S. offer of technology sharing has been insufficient, including that the Turkish side had failed to secure the source code and the remote flight codes for the planes. Without the source code, Turkish engineers wouldn't be able to make any changes to the software that operates the jets, according to a Turkey source.
On the China missiles the U.S. is saying that Turkey has the right to a commercial purchase but shouldn't, on the JSF the U.S. is apparently claiming that Turkey is bound by the 2006 MOU -- seven years ago in a severely troubled program. Good luck on that. Greenert has to obey U.S. orders but Erdogan doesn't.
One large problem is that Turkey probably can't afford both the TFX and the JSF ($50B). Something's got to give. Turkey’s ultimate decision-maker on procurement, the Defense Industry Executive Committee, chaired by Erdogan, is expected to make a decision this year.
And hey, perhaps if China is willing to transfer technology on the missile system then perhaps (as a sweetener) it would also transfer some of the JSF data it has hacked, like source code.
Gripen fell victim to US threats and even sanctions before ,one it was about the missiles once it was about the engines ,but interestingly selling the same technology in US fighter was never a problem. I hope Gripen will be free of US engines and weapons ASAP and avoid more problems in the future.
ReplyDeleteThis is hard to do, since not even the Typhoon and Rafale are free of US content. You can try to minimize the US content, but not completely eliminate it.
DeleteWell, it is not such a bad idea for Turkey to get out of the JSF program and bet the farm on Gripen-T(aka TFX), because Turkey will do just fine with the Gripen against Syria, Greece, and militants.
The same isn't true of Japan and Korea, who not only face China but also each other, so they do need absolutely the best jet they could afford given their extremely dangerous security conditions that they live in. I wonder how Japanese are going to dodge this issue since they are participating in the production of F-35. Korea appears to be planning to reduce the F-35 order to 20 at most and not ask for any tech transfer or industrial participation(No taker among local suppliers when surveyed citing extremely unfavorable terms) and get their offset from a 40 jet run off contest between the Typhoon and the Silent Eagle, so they should be able to dodge this issue because of their F-35 hating(more like overpriced weapons hating) president.
I supposed previously that TF-X was something completely new / different. However if SAAB help them design it then I guess they may use ides from FS2020. However that is true, what FS2020 has been so far if anything and how much JAS-39 the TF-X would end up with I have of course no idea about.
DeleteAs for technologies SAAB want to buy the three naval yards/bases here in Sweden owned by ThyssenKrupp and the Swedish government don't want ThyssenKrupp to build the A26 sub-marines any longer.
I guess if SAAB bought that part and went into the sub-marine business they may also get technology from the Gotland class sub-marines (and/or possibly Visby corvettes?) and maybe get some stealth technologies that way if they haven't got good knowledge/products in the field already (or can get access to it through partners or whatever.)
I have no idea whatever that talk may be related to air-plane development or not but it's happening at about the same time at least.
Saab and Boeing are both majorly getting shafted by the Lockheed mafia and they both have very legitimate and well made fighter while LM doesn't. Meanwhile Russia is making what will probably be the best fighter on earth in the PAK-FA and China is mass producing some fairly good warplanes of their own. I hope this is not a trend that endures.
ReplyDeleteHere's a good read on how LM will fail.
DeleteOct 28, 2013
U.S. Fighter Aircraft Pricing Themselves Out of the Export Market (excerpts)
The majority of buyers over the coming decades will shop for fighters in the price range of the F-16 or the Mirage 2000, made by France’s Dassault Aviation, Aboulafia says. “And that is the market that we're in danger of abandoning.”
It is estimated that only seven countries could afford the Super Hornet and another seven might be candidates for the F-35, including Singapore, Japan, Israel and South Korea.
That is a very small pool of buyers, says Aboulafia. For most countries, “a buck and a quarter isn't going to cut it,” [make that two bucks] he says, referring to the current price of the F-35. “If prices don't go down, the U.S. risks losing a considerable chunk of the world export fighter market which isn't only important from an economic standpoint, but also for strategic relations and keeping allies happy.”
http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/blog/Lists/Posts/Post.aspx?ID=1320
These issues were raised with the UK some years back also, but good catch. F-35 über alles.
ReplyDeleteTurkey's currently going through some serious foreign policy changes as a result of complex regional changes principally in Egypt and Syria. Turkey not so long ago had a "no problems" foreign policy with its neighbors, oriented to the East, then got caught up in events on the side of the West, with problems, and now is re-orienting to the East, or at least away from the West, the U.S. especially. Specifically, Turkey has evicted Saudi Arabia, the principal supporter of jihadists in neighboring Syria, and is making nice with previous foreign policy enemies Iran, Syria and Iraq. (And China and Russia.)
ReplyDeleteSo that has some effect on weapons system acquisitions.