Photos via English Russia (additional construction photos can be found here.)
Putin makes Obama and Kerry look like 1st graders...now we have the Russians making their own swing to the Pacific in grand style. Not one but two Mistral Class LHDs will be deployed with their fleet in the region.
Additionally our MV-22, CH-53E/K, AH-1Z and UH-1Y all might need to bone up on their anti-helicopter tactics. This beauty will carry KA-52's. The Russians have been big into the anti-helicopter mission and the first literature on this helicopter indicated that the CIA and DIA believed its main mission to be shooting down our birds.
But feel good. We have the LCS to counter this threat! (sarcasm spiking)
Putin makes Obama and Kerry look like 1st graders...now we have the Russians making their own swing to the Pacific in grand style. Not one but two Mistral Class LHDs will be deployed with their fleet in the region.
Additionally our MV-22, CH-53E/K, AH-1Z and UH-1Y all might need to bone up on their anti-helicopter tactics. This beauty will carry KA-52's. The Russians have been big into the anti-helicopter mission and the first literature on this helicopter indicated that the CIA and DIA believed its main mission to be shooting down our birds.
But feel good. We have the LCS to counter this threat! (sarcasm spiking)
While i dont know how often they do it, i have watched some Marine HMLA guys do Air to Air, it was a pretty awesome sight
ReplyDeleteThe sooner we can shake off Obama the better our Military will be
ReplyDeleteYep, replace Obama with Clinton.
DeleteWe all know that's how it will happen.
Everyone hates the Tea Party, and they will end up splitting the republican ticket in 2016.
dude you've bought into the liberal mythology.
Delete1. the Tea Party as organized was focused on only the economy and a bloated federal govt. the Republican Party in trying to take over the Tea Party mixed the focus of the TPy and those of the social conservative/evangelist wings of the party.
2. Obama has pushed every divisive social issue imaginable in a time of economic stress. the nation is under extreme pressure because of the economy but he's too fucking stupid to realize that by pushing his social agenda at this time its creating friction. or better said chaos. the reason why you have such push back with his agenda is because he's making the right feel like they're up against a wall. he expected people to back down. instead they're fighting back.
3. Obama totally miscalculated. during his first year in office, instead of focusing on the economy in a real way, he instead assumed that it was a "standard" recession and tried to do healthcare. it would have blown up in his face during ordinary times. now its going to guarantee a Republican win. proof? the Red State Democrats that have asked him to delay implementation. he refuses because he needs to taxes to pay for the uninsured and the illegals. his website won't work by Nov 30 and he'll be screwed against a wall.
so sorry dude. you're misreading the political calculus in a HUGE way.
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Deleteya know the only reason why i left your comment up is because i'm going to be going through my files and posting a greatest hits of your comments today. either i fuck with you so bad that you quit coming here or i splatter your name across the internet and let everyone know why i want to gut you, tie you to a fence pole and let the coyotes, fire ants and alligators munch on your ass.
Deleteeither way is fine by me. oh and go tell your mommy i was mean to you. she'll giggle cause she sure was good to me. swallowed every drop.
What I meant to say was that a VERY large % of the voting public hates the tea party. Enough to give the Dems a majority.
DeleteNo matter how good the Republican is in 2016, the Dems will just fall back to painting him/her as anti-woman, gay, environment, poor people, ect and Pro racism, religion, ect.
The real kicker will be 2014 of course.
Solomon, mistrals are a piece of expensive junk. No one in the navy wanted this thing especially at the price they've been sold. And the Russian Navy had this vessel already evaluated quitew a few officers came out and got silenced again at how fucking faulthy this vessels are.
ReplyDeleteBasicly this summes up what is wrong with the minstrals. After the russian visted and evaluated Frenche own minstrals.
http://vif2ne.ru/nvk/forum/archive/1808/1808197.htm
Basicly Mistrals carry far fewer vehicles than promised. Horrible system of loading and unloading them.
It can't fit four Russian project 11770 "Serna" landing craft and there are no suitable LCAC for it besides the frenche ones.
Six out of sixteen helis are stationed on deck, you need them to take off so that hangar-based can land or take off.
Only Ka-27 will be able to fit into side elevators, the other helicopter types are too wide for it. No provisions for storing and reloading helicopter ammunition.
Crew, hospital, staff quaters and bridge are impractically spacious. Lots of volume wasted on unneeded human laxuries.
Commander of the ship repeatedly stated that it was built using commercial ship design elements, severely sacrificing survivability. There is noticeable lack of watertight and fireproof bulkheads above the waterline, in fact, there is only one, separating crew quarters from vehicle decks. (The OP hasn't been below waterline ). No firefighting equipment in hangar. Very few manual extinguishers. And the armament is almost nonexistent.
So basicly Russian navy has got itself or should I say forced down it's throat lemons. Courtesy of Putin trying to grease French hands.
i'm not sure i buy all that. supposedly US navy officer that visited the ship were quite impressed with its design. also the Russians operate totally different from the way that we do. its called an LHD but its probably more an LHA. the russians have all sorts of landing craft and don't rely on LCAC type boats or even lcm. they still have what i would label as LSTs in service.
Deletelast but not least the Russian Marines are a hodge podge force. either they're extremely light operating in the commando role or they're a bit heavier with an assortment of BMPs, HUGE logistics amphibians and a few tanks. its lack of armament is nothing to be concerned about because quite frankly their isn't a amphibious ship in service in the world that can defend itself against more than a small boat except for those that carry harriers. so its good enough i'msure.
very last point. the deal wasn't about only the ship but NATO standard gear. the Russians have that now and only the French would sell it to them. anyother shipbuilder would not risk the damage to potential sales. even the French got an earful after the sale.
pretty sure I recall reading Russian minstral's would not after all have Frenche electronic systems.come with them.
DeleteThe only benifite this deals offers is technologies and processes that used in building this LHD is also beneficial for Russian shipbuilding, military and civilian alike. But all that could have been acquired from South Koreans. Which we already have been sharing and helping eachother with lots of stuff.
believe me I was also sceptical but to many people got silenced that criticized this deal. Also the fact is other alternitives while were supposed to have been looked at weren't actually looked at.
Some of the things are being remedied for the Russian minstrals. But at a price of 1.6 billion USD per two ships and not counting LCAC ordered from France.
For that money one would have easilly rearmed the black see fleet. Which is not even a flotila this days.
And don't take me as a nationalist.I don't mind if certain military equipmentis bought from another country. I just don't think minstrals were a good purchase.
fair enough. i'll have to take another look at this whole thing. but on a sidenote. i have no problem with nationalism when it comes to military matters. in all cases i believe that a nation should purchase its gear from its own manufacturers. it makes sense, it strengthens national institutions and increases a sense of citizenship. that goes for all. including China which i'm not too fond of.
DeleteAs for self defense capability have you checked out typical russian capital ship ,its a fucking hedge hog ,guns and missiles everywhere ,and then some ,western capital ship has something like 1-2 ciws + missle sistem ,ruski flatop has something like 16 CIWS systems plus 8 missle systems on a single ship. As they do not have big fleets like US does to provide layered defense.
DeleteAll the ranting about the french ships in russa is mainly about money that local bigwigs couldn't get as much money as they would dealing localy. As far as i am aware all foreign revievs of Mistral were positive.
I agree with you solomon. But It's getting more and more expensive to design and build everything yourself.
DeleteInteresting article for sure.
DeleteThe observer was on the boat for 2 hours so you have to wonder how much you can judge in that time. The Google translation wasn't perfect so I don't know who this guy was and his level of expertise. It was interesting to see the differences in how NATO builds and operates ships and Russian ideas.
There seems to be a big difference in what is judged important to Western powers compared to Russian . The level of armament might be seen as light and the troop accommodations might come across as "luxurious". To a Western observer, Russian ships are armed hedge hogs with no comfort and no Westerner would want to serve on them. The Mistral like pretty much all ships like it in the West would operate in a Task Force with probably a carrier and escorts, only in a HA/DR would it operate with no escorts so it doesn't need a ton of weapons.
I don't remember much about the deal and it's all details but weren't the first 2 ships to be built in France with the other 2 in Russia. Well, who says the 2 built in Russia are going to be identical to the first 2 French built? Here in the West, it was said the Russian Navy didn't have anything like it and wasn't prepared to build anything like it, they needed some kind of Western design to work off from, I wouldn't be surprised if the Russian come up with a new design or modified design that fits their needs better, I think the Russian Navy is taking a smart short cut. Take some design cues from the West and the best of Russian ideas to build the next ones.
I have no evidence of this but my thought would be that even the Russian realize that sometimes even they have to operate with Western powers like piracy or DR and there equipment is so focused on war that they aren't quite adequate for anything else so they need a ship like this and that has some common features with Western ships
I have been looking at Chinese pictures of the inside of their new destroyers and new carrier and they seem to me to be pretty "comfortable", they seem to share the Western approach to levels of "comfort" and space.
Regarding Russia building the other 2 Minstral that seem to have been the case and still is as far as I know. The shipyards that have the space ...said the could build a better LHD. Problem is they are booked by civillian orders and who knows if they actually can. .And yes it's correct Russian never builth a LHD like the minstral. But they were various projects.that never quite got of the ground. Last one being the project 11780
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The Mistrals aren't junk. The only real complaint about ti is that it doesn't have alot of built-in weapons systems, and that is due to the French budget not allowing for them. Also, the US officers who toured it said that they would like to stuff more people into it, saying that in their eyes, the officers cabins were too spacious. An they can load LCACs and M1A1 tanks and land V-22s.
DeleteYea officer's country on French vessels is pretty sweet....
DeleteThe good news for Russia is that the Japanese SDF that those ships are intending to counter is restructuring. http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/11/us-japan-defence-idUSBRE9AA0MB20131111
ReplyDeleteBasically, Japan is abandoning "Buy Japan" policy to lower the weapons acquisition cost. For example, a 10% Japanese content in the JASDF F-35 raises its unit cost by 50%, so it makes little sense to add local Japanese content. This is intended to lower the weapons acquisition cost under a tight budget.
The budget axe also fell onto Japan's tanks, where the JGSDF will reduce the tank force size from 400 to 300 in order to save money. Basically, the JGSDF is being downsized to pay for a naval and air force expansion.
Thankfully, the remaining JSDF tanks will be Type 90 and Type 10s, extremely modern tanks with 120mm guns and great armor.
DeleteJapan, more than many other nations, needs a big strong navy. And those F-4s in the JASDF need replacing.
Perhaps is because my english suck or maybe I am missing something, but I think that your comment is not very well-informed.
Delete"...The good news for Russia is that the Japanese SDF that those ships are intending to counter..."
When we asked them, they told us japanese that their new ships are for counter the chinese.
'A new page’: Russia, Japan hold first 2+2 talks, aim to boost military cooperation
http://rt.com/news/russia-japan-first-talks-134/
It seems to us japanese that the russians want to be able to make an alliance with Japan if the chinese invade them.
"...Japan is abandoning "Buy Japan" policy..."
SDF be able to buy more firepower for the same money sounds like bad news for anyone that plan to fight the SDF.
"...The budget axe also fell onto Japan's tanks, where the JGSDF will reduce the tank force size from 400 to 300 in order to save money. Basically, the JGSDF is being downsized to pay for a naval and air force expansion...."
Japan is surrounded by water so the best way of deal with an invading force is destroy their troops transports before they reach our shores, tanks are only the last and symbolic line of defense, because anyone that can defeat the MSDF can blockade and starve Japan in to surrender. Russia have 6500 active tanks, Japan have 400 tanks, the ratio is 16.25 russian tanks for every japanese tank so the idea of a Japan invading Russia is ludicrous. Now, can you please elaborate how 100 tanks less make any difference in the big picture?
Hell we do not even have the LCS. This embarrassment of ship is having problems again, check out the link below.
ReplyDeletehttp://news.yahoo.com/u-warship-hit-technical-glitch-singapore-044400076--sector.html
The design of Russia’s Mistral helicopter carriers has also been altered. For instance, they got a stronger hull that will allow the navy ship to perform tasks beyond the Arctic circle. Viktor Baranets, a Russian military expert, shared with the Voice of Russia more details on the new ship.
ReplyDelete"French vessels will be redesigned to meet Russian standards. They will be equipped with Russian weapons and carry about 16 heavy or 32 light choppers, as well as some serious anti-aircraft systems. "......They’ll also be provided with tactical nuclear complexes, such as supersonic cruise missiles Kalibri and some serious radar systems," Mr. Baranets said.
Read more: http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2013_10_15/First-Russian-Mistral-class-helicopter-carrier-launched-in-French-town-of-Saint-Nazaire-4770/
There are also some of other changes, I wouldn't be surprised if the last 2 diverge even more from the first 2 French built ones.
Except this Viktor Baranets guy is wrong the The first two Minstrals clearly don't have UKSK cells. Nor do they have serious SAM system. Unless pair of Ghibka's instead of Simbad count as serious AAW systems.
DeleteThe two Russian built minstrals might be different but I have no hopes for that.
I was surprised at the mention of room for "special" weapons, i.e.nukes but I can only go with what I read....
ReplyDeletehttp://news.usni.org/2013/06/24/opinion-russians-fumble-mistral-construction
This article and others lead me to believe the Russian will modify the next 2 Russian Mistral or will commission a Russian design with some of the best features, if nothing else, Russian Navy will have something in service NOW and will maybe force Russian govt and military industrial complex to get going on this project...