EM Gear Blog has an article on what they call a "low profile" response kit to an active shooter situation. What caught my attention was the reference to the Kenyan Mall Massacre.
We haven't had it yet but its going to happen if history is any indication. Either a couple of thrill killers, a few insane buddies or terrorist will band together and go on a killing spree in a public place.
All this brings me to the question at hand. How much ammo do you really need to carry with you to be considered prepared? American Mercenary tells a story of two soldiers that ran through a basic load in a matter of minutes (you can read it here)....the juicy bits follow...
I recently came back from the sand box, and for the first time in a deployed environment my unit faced an "active shooter" scenario.I'm also trying to dig up an article from Police One where a LEO ended a car chase in a shootout from hell.
We lost one our own. Yes it sucked, but I learned something again, and being close to the action put things in perspective. I'm thankful that this time I didn't know the deceased on a very personal level. It is easier to compartmentalize and move on logically that way.
Two Soldiers with M9 pistols and full magazines, were able to save themselves from a pissed off Afghan with an AK long enough for someone else to shoot him with a rifle. Both the Soldiers went dry on ammo.
If you are going to carry a pistol, odds are it will save your life. Odds are statistically speaking, that it won't always kill the bad guy. If you want to make sure your pistol work kills the bad guy, you need to practice like Tam does so that you don't "suck."
Luckily the guy was a paranoid, squared away son of a bitch. He ended up exchanging gunfire with the bad guy and finally put him down. Over 100 rounds were exchanged. And before you get started, spare me the nonsense about it being a spray and pray situation. You're by yourself, you're hookin and jabbin and you have to keep the bad guys head down while shooting and moving????? He did good. I'll keep trying to find the article, but the guy now carries North of 140 rounds with him now (I'm positive that includes 33 round mags in a go bag).
But back on task. Is 15 rounds ready plus another 15 rounds in a spare mag enough for active SHOOTERS in this day and age? Or is preparing for the lone robber or thief enough? I don't know but I'm seriously beginning to wonder. Maybe its time to rethink the taboo of offbody carry when it comes to being ready for active shooters.
Why would carry extra magazines off-body be a taboo? I know carrying a firearm might be taboo, but extra magazines are plentiful and relatively inexpensive compared to a pistol.
ReplyDeletePlus, there is also magazine ankle holsters that can carry two mags each. Two mags per ankle would be an extra 60 rounds. If you have a jacket or cargo pants, you can carry more.
Are we talking as a private citizen or as LE or armed security?
its taboo for private citizen to carry off body. i understand why .... weapon retention. most civilians don't practice it near enough and a bag complicates matters.
DeleteSomething always has to be on your person. Whatever you carry, you need something smallish that will short-draw quickly without getting hung up on something. While this video shows a full-sized service pistol, there is some proper technique. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEFPcljAXgs
ReplyDeletehttp://www.policeone.com/patrol-issues/articles/6199620-Why-one-cop-carries-145-rounds-of-ammo-on-the-job/
ReplyDeletehere you go
thats the one!!!! thanks Tony!
DeleteDue to this I have decided to change my duty weapon to a Glock 17 with a 3 mag pouch, a g26 in an ankle holster with 1 spare mag, and a 5 shot S&W 642 holstered in a way i can get to it with my weak hand if I am in a fight for my duty weapon. That would bring my on person load out from 42 rounds now to 95. I carry my trauma kit in my vest carrier on duty. Off duty for now until I can buy my 2 new guns. I carry my 38 on my person and my duty weapon with 2 spare mags in a backpack with my trauma kit. I won't have armor, but I should be able to fight long enough or keep their heads down long enough to save my family.
ReplyDeletethat sounds right...especially considering what i believe is coming our way. everyone saw Kenya and just as soon forgot about it. America can deal with a lone wolf crazy but we're going to have a come to Jesus moment when it becomes a group of killers at a school or mall. that's when everyone is gonna wake up and realize that they've just been playing at the edges.
Deletenobody stops to tie their shoe in a gunfight....i.e: if you go for your ankle holster or ankle mag pouch when not concealed or behind cover, if I was a turd I would immediately advance on you mag-dump right into the top of your head.
DeleteJust sayin'
fights, even gunfights have pulses. you have opportunities to get behind cover and do a new york reload. if you're in full weapon retention mode and some idiot is grabbing your weapon and beating you around the head and shoulders you should be tucked in tight which means ankle holsters work.
Deleteweapon retention and defeating gun grabs is a necessary skill but a nasty one to learn. to me thats the difference between someone serious about being a concealed carry holder and a fanboy/rookie/wannabe.
besides. if some idiot approaches doing a full mag dump on me then he get two in the face and three in the chest. all my mags are extended. i use glock 19's in my 26, g17's in my 19 and my 17 only uses 33's. try counting my shots! i'm no shield 7 shot guy.
I just want the extra guns for the what if. Im not saying if my main gun runs dry I am going to pull an ankle gun, but if my main gun is FUBAR I still can fire every round my big gun can through my backup. If I get to my oh crap 38 it will be shoved in someones gut or into their eyeball or over my shoulder while I try to create as much distance as I can....
DeleteOh one of the first stories I read after getting into what I do is an officer who could not use their main gun due to getting his strong side thumb shot almost off. He really needed that thumb to operate his holster. That is why I try to carry two guns and have the 2nd where my weak side can get to it fairly easy in case on side is to damaged to get to my preferred weapon.
In Texas, a very concealed-carry friendly state, my typical civilian load-out is a Glock 23 with 13 rounder+1 IWB at the appendix with a Zack trigger guard to keep me from blowing my right testicle off.
ReplyDeleteI carry an additional 15-round magazine in a horizontal mag pouch for an easy reload without fighting my garment to get to it either from behind cover or while fighting to reach cover.
I practice my speed draw and quick movement at home in my garage from time to time with an Airsoft mockup of a Glock 23 against an 8-inch target affixed to the garage door.
I have taken several tactical handgun classes...not that pussy NRA certified stuff but with Suarez International, where they have you do stuff that would make any liability-minded rangemaster have a baby. (you gotta train like you intend to fight, and if you don't train you will FAIL if you have to fight.)
After reading this article, I will begin carrying a third magazine on me somewhere....cargo shorts are my usual dress mode so it shouldn't be hard....and a mini bleeder/blowout kit with a minimum of a CAT or slick tourniquet and an Israeli bandage.
Fortunately, I avoid malls, hate crowds, drive respectfully, and try to keep distance from disorder at all times just so I don't have to put my hobby to use....
However, just because you aren't looking for a fight doesn't mean that a fight isn't looking for you.
ok, then we ARE on the same side of the fence on this....i thought (and i'm glad i was wrong) that you were calling bullshit on carrying more ammo than is standard practice in alot of circles. my bad.
DeleteI think it depends.
ReplyDeleteOne guy trying to evade \ escape one guy, 15 rounds should be plenty.
You only need enough shots to make him duck long enough for you to get round a corner and run.
Once it becomes a few guys on one or both sides, or escape ceases to be of an option for some reason, youre looking at a siege, and 1000 rounds might not be enough, depending on how many of "them" there are, how many rounds they have, how aggressive they are, and how good your suppressing fire is.
I any event, I dont see what having spares in your car offers, once you are at your car, you have, hopefully, escaped.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pq0gM4tbetw#t=86
ReplyDeleteShe is armed. I am not. I am not going to argue with her. :)