I had fun and loved the comments on the best tanks. So next up is fighter/attack and following that we'll look at IFVs. In keeping with the style of best tanks, this list is broken down by mission.
Air Superiority...F-22.
This was tougher than you might imagine. All the usual suspects were in the running. Typhoon, F-22, F-15, SU-35, and Rafale. I was tempted beyond belief to give the nod to the F-15. You're the champ until you get knocked off. Lets be honest too. The F-22's qualities are all theoretical, plus its giving its pilots a type of coal mine lung, and it has yet to be proven in combat. Same applies to the other airplanes in the air superiority role. I knuckled under and just went with the consensus favorite. No solid rationale except that everyone believes that its best. Still .... the F-15.....
Close Air Support...A-10.
This is another no brainer...but a bit more difficult than you might imagine. The A-10 can get in low, mix it up, take a punch and keep on jabbing. But the other guys on my comparison list have strong points too. The AV-8B Harrier can deploy on ship and can be their when the A-10 would have to stage from bases further away. The Predator B drone can loiter forever and provide eyes in the sky while dropping bombs on the bad guys. The AC-130 can provide precision firepower...if the area is SAM free...the list goes on. The winning quality for the A-10 was its ability to hang and fight.
Multi-mission...F-18.
The only real competition in this area was between the Super Hornet and the Rafale. Yeah we see models of the F-15 and SU-XX loaded with bombs and conducting this mission but the Super Hornet was designed out of the box to do this (along with the Rafale) so that gives those two a leg up. The thing that put the Super Hornet ahead of the Rafale was its combat record and the fact that the US Navy along with Boeing is working hard to keep this airplane as up to date as possible. In the end that was its saving grace and the thing that put it over the top.
Deep/Naval Strike...SU-34.
The West better hope that the Russians and Chinese never wake up and realize what a powerhouse they have in this figher bomber. Its the Russian F-111, just modernized. Quite honestly naval planners are always talking about (me too) anti-ship missiles but with the idea that Tu-95's or the Chinese equivalent or ships or land bases will be firing them. But what happens if some Russian or Chinese admiral (or more likely staff officer) figures out that he can launch an all quadrant high speed attack using the SU-34 to take out an Expeditionary Strike Group? What happens if they decide that the Stryker Brigade advancing can be decimated by a wing of SU-34's loaded down with the appropriate weapons? This plane is big, its fast, it carries defensive missiles (some reported to be fired backwards) and it has all around defense suite. You'll argue but this is the best of breed.
Below are my honorable mentions....
Gripen.
This plane is going to win orders. Its just a matter of time. Cost is becoming a factor world wide and soon the idea of using fighters in an offensive role will become secondary to just a homeland security mission set. If costs becomes a factor then this planes only competition will be the Super Hornet. Just like ObamaCare, many are going to get sticker shock from the F-35 and many will balk. The Gripen has a bright future.
Typhoon.
It didn't win in any particular category but its a plane to watch. The Europeans must keep it competitive into the future and that means upgrades will have to be made. I expect to see a flurry of activity in the near future and that will mean this plane will finally get the items it deserves. A high power AESA. Efficient and powerful engines. Conformal fuel tanks. Oh and necessary upgrades to its attack/close air support capability.
J-20/PAK-FA.
We just don't know enough about these airplanes yet and the Central Intelligence Agency and the Defense Intelligence Agency along with Navy and Air Force Intel aren't telling us a thing. The mystery continues. In the future they might be the monsters that some imagine. We just don't know yet.
Air Superiority...F-22.
This was tougher than you might imagine. All the usual suspects were in the running. Typhoon, F-22, F-15, SU-35, and Rafale. I was tempted beyond belief to give the nod to the F-15. You're the champ until you get knocked off. Lets be honest too. The F-22's qualities are all theoretical, plus its giving its pilots a type of coal mine lung, and it has yet to be proven in combat. Same applies to the other airplanes in the air superiority role. I knuckled under and just went with the consensus favorite. No solid rationale except that everyone believes that its best. Still .... the F-15.....
Close Air Support...A-10.
This is another no brainer...but a bit more difficult than you might imagine. The A-10 can get in low, mix it up, take a punch and keep on jabbing. But the other guys on my comparison list have strong points too. The AV-8B Harrier can deploy on ship and can be their when the A-10 would have to stage from bases further away. The Predator B drone can loiter forever and provide eyes in the sky while dropping bombs on the bad guys. The AC-130 can provide precision firepower...if the area is SAM free...the list goes on. The winning quality for the A-10 was its ability to hang and fight.
Multi-mission...F-18.
The only real competition in this area was between the Super Hornet and the Rafale. Yeah we see models of the F-15 and SU-XX loaded with bombs and conducting this mission but the Super Hornet was designed out of the box to do this (along with the Rafale) so that gives those two a leg up. The thing that put the Super Hornet ahead of the Rafale was its combat record and the fact that the US Navy along with Boeing is working hard to keep this airplane as up to date as possible. In the end that was its saving grace and the thing that put it over the top.
Deep/Naval Strike...SU-34.
The West better hope that the Russians and Chinese never wake up and realize what a powerhouse they have in this figher bomber. Its the Russian F-111, just modernized. Quite honestly naval planners are always talking about (me too) anti-ship missiles but with the idea that Tu-95's or the Chinese equivalent or ships or land bases will be firing them. But what happens if some Russian or Chinese admiral (or more likely staff officer) figures out that he can launch an all quadrant high speed attack using the SU-34 to take out an Expeditionary Strike Group? What happens if they decide that the Stryker Brigade advancing can be decimated by a wing of SU-34's loaded down with the appropriate weapons? This plane is big, its fast, it carries defensive missiles (some reported to be fired backwards) and it has all around defense suite. You'll argue but this is the best of breed.
Below are my honorable mentions....
Gripen.
This plane is going to win orders. Its just a matter of time. Cost is becoming a factor world wide and soon the idea of using fighters in an offensive role will become secondary to just a homeland security mission set. If costs becomes a factor then this planes only competition will be the Super Hornet. Just like ObamaCare, many are going to get sticker shock from the F-35 and many will balk. The Gripen has a bright future.
Typhoon.
It didn't win in any particular category but its a plane to watch. The Europeans must keep it competitive into the future and that means upgrades will have to be made. I expect to see a flurry of activity in the near future and that will mean this plane will finally get the items it deserves. A high power AESA. Efficient and powerful engines. Conformal fuel tanks. Oh and necessary upgrades to its attack/close air support capability.
J-20/PAK-FA.
We just don't know enough about these airplanes yet and the Central Intelligence Agency and the Defense Intelligence Agency along with Navy and Air Force Intel aren't telling us a thing. The mystery continues. In the future they might be the monsters that some imagine. We just don't know yet.
There is another role not mentioned above -- interceptor.
ReplyDeleteWith untimely demise of F-14 (i really hope that this magnificient birds still waiting their hour in remote undeground hangars...), there is only MiG-31 left, alive and kicking. Some of MiG-31 even upgraded to carry anti-ship missiles -- Su-34 does not even close in terms of speed performance to MiG-31.
Although its facing same problem as F-22 -- cannot be manufactured anymore.
outside of carrier aviation does the interceptor mission still exist or has it been replaced by the catch all air superiority mission?
Deletei don't know. additionally considering that missiles are getting even more and more long ranged can it be said that the S-400 is the "new" breed of interceptor if the term still exists?
until we get back to the days of long range bombers operating in mass i think the term no longer really applies.
Group of MiG-31's using its powerful radar and datalink can cover huge territory, effectively replacing ground based SAM site mission and ground radar mission where needed. And it can use its unmatched speed in traditional intercepting mission.
DeleteNot to mention that with datalink MiG-31 can also perform awacs mission for friendly planes in area.
Considering long range air to ground missiles in MiG-31 arsenal, it can effectively participate in carrier attack mission and in SAM site attack mission.
Such a missionary MiG-31 btw.
In a modern multirole world, one vehicle -- one mission principle simply does not exist anymore, and unique interceptor capabilities of MiG-31 give him specific advantages unmatched by any other plane currently in service worldwide.
The MIG-31 is the last of the interceptor Fighters. I think the cost of maintaining the MIG-31 will put it out to pasture and replace it with Multi Mission Fighter
DeleteThere is something funny about the T-50 and the J-20.If you look back at the 1980s, when the ATF competition started,and take a good look at the artistic pictures of proposals made by industry and aviation experts of what the the then future ATF would look like...you will see a lot of planes ressenbling the J-20 and the T-50.I have no douth that these planes were designed with requirements similar to the F-22...supercruise,reduced RCS,super agility...its almost like deja vu to look at these planes.Just look at some and tell me what you think:http://yf-23.net/galleries/ATFconceptart.html
ReplyDeletesee, this is where stuff gets murky. their were a couple of different programs going on at the same time and all of them produced concept aircraft that were tailored to a particular mission set.
DeleteAlso,you talked about the Su-34...
DeleteDid you know that there was a proposed ASW version of it,to hunt submarines in highly contested areas?
I mostly approve of the list. Seems pretty accurate.
ReplyDeleteAs much as I love the Super Hornet, I'm wondering why the Su-35S was not considered for the multi-mission fighter position. The Russians have made the Su-35S a multi-role fighter and have given it all the latest air-to-ground weaponry to boot. There is even a version of it with the unofficial nickname "Growlerski" built for jamming like the EA-18G that the Russians haven't been talking much about. I think it should have at least been in the honorable mentions. In comparison to the Super Hornet, the Su-35S has better armament and more raw power while having less advanced avionics and less advanced weapon systems so I'm glad the Super is in that spot still. Also, I don't know if you considered this when you were thinking of the multi-mission role, but have you looked at the costs of the Rafale? It is REALLY expensive, especially to operate.
I know the PAK-FA isn't fully developed, but I think it will turn out to be a better fighter than the F-22. It's got better armament and, unlike the Raptor, it was built with fighting other stealth fighters in mind. The Russians built IRST and L-band radar systems into it that will give it the ability to find enemy stealth fighters (or at least locate their general direction in theory). I'm wondering if the Russians built these systems into it with the thought of countering Chinese stealth fighters as well. India is buying the PAK-FA and they don't much like the Chinese either so I can't help but to wonder if that's something they agreed on during it's development.
I don't remember where I read this, but the Chinese seem to be thinking of the J-20 as a supersonic Deep Naval Strike fighter. They want to outfit it with ship killing cruise missiles and hopefully have a force of them move in to wipe out a carrier battle group in a WWIII scenario. I'm also guessing that's why they don't want to export it, because they fear some third world dictator using it on us and causing a chaotic mess.
What about F-111's little brother Tornado? The stealth aircraft of the 80s - low level penetration.
ReplyDeleteStill useful to take out SAM-radar.
is a Tornado your first choice to do that mission of the airplanes listed above? i'd still take the SU-34 over it. my second choice would probably be the F-22 and hope that the small diameter bombs are as good as everyone says and can actually be launched with the plane going supersonic. even the Typhoon, F-18 and Rafale, not to mention the Gripen would be my choice before i got to the Tornado.
Deletelike the Jaguar and Bucaneer, it served well but its time is over.
If I was building an Air force, I would have the F/A-18 E/F Super Hornet as my multi Role Fighter. Su-34 would be my deep/Naval strike fighter. Jas-39 Gripen would be my tactical fighter. A-29 Super Tucano as my CAS/COIN/manned ISR aircraft. A-10 as my heavy CAS Aircraft. For AEW&C would be E-767 and Tanker transport would be KC-46. Transports would be C-295, C-130J & C-17. MPA would be the P-8
ReplyDeleteThe fact of the matter is that if you had all three of the major aircraft listed above in sufficient numbers you wouldn't need anything else.
DeleteThe F-22 for air-to-air, the A-10 for air-to-ground, and the Super Hornet for everything in between and then some.
The way I look at it, I would have covered all my bases
DeleteAnd you air-force would have MASSIVE supply chain and logistical issues due to those incompatible spare parts :)
ReplyDeleteSo what would your Ideal Air force be like
DeleteF-35 and F-22. No pilot, maintainer, or anyone else who actually works with the planes complains about the chibi-raptor. And, given that the price is down under a hundred million and looks to fall to the 70 million range with regular production, they'll get to be very good.
DeleteAdd into that the capacity for an F-35 D variant equipped with a FEL based active missile defense system, and the F-35 is going to be a terror to fight, period. It is the only plane that can dogfight, THEN drop ordinance in a CAS run. It will have the numbers to stealth-wolfpack to death any opponent, and has all the features of the F-22 and PAK-FA, and THEN some more.
Sure, it isn't quite as manuverable as most other planes, but it is designed to make actually needing that manuverability rather pointless. Scary, scary plane.
The Typhoon line will be shuttered in 2017-2019.
ReplyDeleteThe Gripen NG only has 82 orders.... and Sweden is retiring most of the C/Ds.
A used F-16 is just as good for half the price.
The Super Hornet is an aerodynamically inferior design to the Rafale. It is also an older airframe design and doesn't have SPECTRA.
And the Rafale line will shutter in 2017-2018.
Super Hornet line will close in 2016. The USN just can't buy more, they already have 500+
So most jets on this list will be out of production by 2020.
1-No it will not be closed down.How can you say that if there is on going fighter bids in middle east where the Eurofighter is very well regarded?
Delete2-I am pretty sure that not everybody can afford F-35s.The Gripen will sell a lot more.In fact i am betting you that it will steal customers from the JSF in a near future.
3-How is it older?The Rafale first flew in 1986 and the SuperHornet in 1995...
The SuperHornet as superior EW suite to the Rafale and has a dedicated EW variant far superior to anything the french have...Oh and i forgot...only one of those planes as an HMD...
4-How will the Rafale line end in 2018?Dont they have to delived the rest of the Armée de l'Air airframes and then...i dont know...something like 126 of these to India?
4-Not if the Navy orders more...or Brazil...or Kuwait...or Canada...or Malaysia...or Denmark...or the UAE...or Greece...
5-No they wont...and what will be funny is that even the F-16 will be build after 2020...
The Middle eastern bids had better wrap up ASAP.
DeleteEven then, those bids are for 12-36 jets.
Indian jets will be built in India, for India.
The Gripen consistently fails in export orders at is isn't even as good as an F-16.
Nobody wants them.
Denmark isn't going to order Supers, Neither is Brazil, after the NSA thing, Kuwait has the cash for the F-35, Malaysia can't afford ANY new jets, UAE has F-35 cash, but may buy Rafales, Greece has NO MONEY for ANY arms purchases :)
You need to let the Super Hornet go
I'm surprised nobody chose the F-15E as the multi-role fighter. Much better range than Eagle-lite (Super Hornet) available with an AESA radar, IRST, and every modern weapon the US uses. Better speed than the Super Hornet also (M 2.5).
ReplyDeleteAnother interesting category is for the advanced trainers that can do light attack. Aermacchi, Golden Eaglea etc.
ReplyDeleteWatch this Solomon, it seems even the USAF has a plan B like the USNavy
ReplyDeletehttp://www.slashgear.com/rq-180-stealth-drone-revealed-as-us-air-force-targets-hostile-skies-06307899/
The pak fa will be slightly better that the f-22. Russia has went so long with out air superiority that they have decided that they aren't willing to to commit to a significant fleet of 5th generation fighters until they know that they can make a superior one. They just keep drawing and drawing. J20 and J31 are both slightly inferior to F22 and F35 but with all the patent infringement the price is right. Both countries are playing a strong chess game. We'll have to wait and see how many they buy. Ive seen estimates of 500 PAK-FA for Russian use and 500-1000 for export through 2040. I don't find the Russian number very alarming so long as the fed follows through and acquires the full amount of F-35s, despite the way it wasn't designed to be a air superiority fighter.
ReplyDeleteIn the long term, the west really needs to step up its game though. We cant always get away with a smart single engine fighter. Think about it these aren't economy cars, these are weapons of war and in war raw power is highly relevant.
Also, while we are commited to the joint strike fighter and the west doesn't really have a lot of good options in the 5th generation fighter business. The JSF concept doesn't really work. The JSF was supposed to be an economical ground attack plane and the austerity of politics and the wide list of requirements form various services and nations has really turned something into something it was never designed nor optimized for and ballooned the price.
The other problem with it is the lack of competition. Everyone is selling components for the thing but no one is really trying to outright compete with them. Its kind of left us with something similar to the military-industrial complex Eisenhower warned us about. And that is the US side of the problem, the EU needs some quality 5th gen fighters, but they also need fighters of a cheaper variety to fill up the rest of their air force fleets within their state budgets.
For heaven sake stop bull shitting...India needs medium class deep penetration strike bomber/ fighter with high rate survivalability with advanced state of art EW to destroy CHINESE valued military installations/targets steering its heavy defences..REFALE carries 1.5 times load (14.5 ton) than its own weight of 9.5 ton...who else ?...then its the best combat tested in libya,iraq,afghanstan,mali matured ground attack plane in the world who else ?...with small rcs...SPECTRA NG and OLF NG...are best in the world in nonstealthy fighters for survibality which russian plane (all su-35.30mki,34) have large rcs highly vulnerable to enemy defence.. has this parallel ???...and matchless in BVR combats with RBE2 radar and METEOR missile(best in europe till today ) with max. (No Escape Zone) in the world..can be further integrated with russian and israeli armaments like K-100 long range (around 350-400 km range) missiles... with full transfer of ToT/MoT..future upgrades and technology highly useful in developing TEJAS MK2 MK3 and upgrade with latest tech armaments of other 350 old support warplanes like (mirage, mig 27, jaguar, ) to give them sharpness...and of course reliable French political support( one more friend like Russia)....if any other deal still better then go for that...all other considerations are useless !!!
ReplyDelete