That's some very outdated news you have here. Poland already buy Leo 2A5 (104 tanks) and 2A4 (14 tanks) with full logistic support, 220 vehicles for that 180 million euro.
Also that transaction is not linked to anything that is part of Navy modernization program. The tender for new submarine or two will start in the next year. And they want to BUY not lease.
The deal was inked on November 22nd 2013 and does also include 18 BPz3 Büffel armoured recovery vehicles. The video featured above is older.
The lease deal is mentioned here: http://www.thelocal.de/20131129/poland-gives-german-subs-thumbs-down "Surprisingly, Skrzypczak admitted Germany’s top submarine did not meet all of the 'mandatory requirements of tactical and technical equipment developed by the military, including in particular the propulsion system, missile weapons and rescue system.'” Poland operates today one Kilo-class submarine and 4 Kobben-class submarine with a displacement of 500 t. One mandatory requirement could have been a big cheque for Mr. Skrzypczak.
German Navy hast to few crews to man all six submarines (no joke!). So leasing several submarines could be possible and a wet lease very impossible.
Interesting info but also rather outdated, gen. Skrzypczak lost his security clearance in September this year. In the last days of November he resign from his function in Polish DoD modernization and arms department. It is a major problem in army, gen. Skrzypczak was a father of Polish tank modernization program. That new Leo tanks was his work.
There was only one problem with German subs of 212A class, lack of ability to launch sea-land cruise missiles. Of course this ability for Polish subs are very controversial and under high critic from marine specialists in Poland.
Sailors, officers and specialist who were invited to visit U-31 in Gdynia some time ago were very impressed by that sub. But we must remember that decision about buy or not buy everything in Army, Navy or Air Force is made by civilians in Polish DoD. And as history learn us, they are highly incompetent persons. Polish Navy is in the worst position of all weapons, the are something like forgotten child of Poland. Most of it ships will need to go to scrap in next years without any replacement.
I never meet in Polish publications about this lease proposition or idea thru.
Israeli Dolphin-class submarines are equipped with Harpoon and Popeye missiles. The latest batch of Harpoon can aim at land based targets. There is also a tube launched version of the Tomahawk available. So Type 212 would just need some kind of "software update" to use such a torpedo tube fired missile.
Btw Singarpore ordered 2 Type 218SG submarines. http://gentleseas.blogspot.com.au/2013/12/singapore-buying-two-hdw-218sg.html
Lease of sub is forbidden by Polish law, lease is form of buying and buying any type of equipment without the tender is against the law. But, when U-31 visit Gdynia in September there were talks about rent of one 212A for crew training task if German sub would win tender.
Indeed 212 can use updated Harpoon missile, also Israel Popeye Turbo ( but for now that missile have top secret specs and we know almost nothing about it ) but Tomahawk is too big. But ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems representative said that this is no technical problem to mount on 212 and 214 subs modern cruise missiles, even MBDA MdCN.
Time will show. For now there is three competitors, ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems 214, 212A i DCNS Scorpène.
Btw.: There are Israeli Dolphin class submarines have 26 in torpedo tubes.
German Type 212 submarines are already built. Within the next 2 years we will see no commissioned Scorpène-class submarine with AIP. The Type 212 is built especially to navigate in the shallow waters of the Baltic Sea. Scorpène with AIP is nearly 20 m longer. Type 212 has even more range. U 32 showed this spring it can transit submerged for at least 18 days to the US. This was shown on a deployment for several exercises “Westlant Deployments 2013”. During these exercises several times Arleigh Burke-class US destroyers and the USS Dallas were successful attacked. The submarine escaped unharmed every time. And finally much more Polish speak German than French.
The latest Polnish concept is to buy 119 Leopard 2 tanks for €180 million.
ReplyDeleteThat deal is somehow linked to a lease of German submarines to Poland.
That's some very outdated news you have here. Poland already buy Leo 2A5 (104 tanks) and 2A4 (14 tanks) with full logistic support, 220 vehicles for that 180 million euro.
DeleteAlso that transaction is not linked to anything that is part of Navy modernization program. The tender for new submarine or two will start in the next year. And they want to BUY not lease.
The deal was inked on November 22nd 2013 and does also include 18 BPz3 Büffel armoured recovery vehicles. The video featured above is older.
DeleteThe lease deal is mentioned here:
http://www.thelocal.de/20131129/poland-gives-german-subs-thumbs-down
"Surprisingly, Skrzypczak admitted Germany’s top submarine did not meet all of the 'mandatory requirements of tactical and technical equipment developed by the military, including in particular the propulsion system, missile weapons and rescue system.'”
Poland operates today one Kilo-class submarine and 4 Kobben-class submarine with a displacement of 500 t. One mandatory requirement could have been a big cheque for Mr. Skrzypczak.
German Navy hast to few crews to man all six submarines (no joke!). So leasing several submarines could be possible and a wet lease very impossible.
Interesting info but also rather outdated, gen. Skrzypczak lost his security clearance in September this year. In the last days of November he resign from his function in Polish DoD modernization and arms department. It is a major problem in army, gen. Skrzypczak was a father of Polish tank modernization program. That new Leo tanks was his work.
DeleteThere was only one problem with German subs of 212A class, lack of ability to launch sea-land cruise missiles. Of course this ability for Polish subs are very controversial and under high critic from marine specialists in Poland.
Sailors, officers and specialist who were invited to visit U-31 in Gdynia some time ago were very impressed by that sub. But we must remember that decision about buy or not buy everything in Army, Navy or Air Force is made by civilians in Polish DoD. And as history learn us, they are highly incompetent persons. Polish Navy is in the worst position of all weapons, the are something like forgotten child of Poland. Most of it ships will need to go to scrap in next years without any replacement.
I never meet in Polish publications about this lease proposition or idea thru.
Israeli Dolphin-class submarines are equipped with Harpoon and Popeye missiles. The latest batch of Harpoon can aim at land based targets. There is also a tube launched version of the Tomahawk available. So Type 212 would just need some kind of "software update" to use such a torpedo tube fired missile.
DeleteBtw Singarpore ordered 2 Type 218SG submarines.
http://gentleseas.blogspot.com.au/2013/12/singapore-buying-two-hdw-218sg.html
I was searching for yous some info.
DeleteLease of sub is forbidden by Polish law, lease is form of buying and buying any type of equipment without the tender is against the law. But, when U-31 visit Gdynia in September there were talks about rent of one 212A for crew training task if German sub would win tender.
Indeed 212 can use updated Harpoon missile, also Israel Popeye Turbo ( but for now that missile have top secret specs and we know almost nothing about it ) but Tomahawk is too big. But ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems representative said that this is no technical problem to mount on 212 and 214 subs modern cruise missiles, even MBDA MdCN.
Time will show. For now there is three competitors, ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems 214, 212A i DCNS Scorpène.
Torpedo tube launched Tomahawk:
Deletehttp://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=67db2245-804c-46de-8146-8f21f14ab1ff
http://www.ausairpower.net/TE-Subs-vs-F-111s.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomahawk_%28missile%29
Btw.: There are Israeli Dolphin class submarines have 26 in torpedo tubes.
German Type 212 submarines are already built. Within the next 2 years we will see no commissioned Scorpène-class submarine with AIP. The Type 212 is built especially to navigate in the shallow waters of the Baltic Sea. Scorpène with AIP is nearly 20 m longer. Type 212 has even more range.
U 32 showed this spring it can transit submerged for at least 18 days to the US. This was shown on a deployment for several exercises “Westlant Deployments 2013”. During these exercises several times Arleigh Burke-class US destroyers and the USS Dallas were successful attacked. The submarine escaped unharmed every time. And finally much more Polish speak German than French.