Thanks for the article Jonathan!
via DefenseNews.
But I believe the US Army just told us what it thinks about the Air Force retiring the A-10. I think the US Army just told us what it thinks about the F-35 providing close air support. I think we're witnessing the first real indication of how the Army views the F-35. They're not impressed, they believe that the USAF is out of the close air support business and they're making moves to do it themselves.
The JCS likes to put on a happy face when it comes to jointness. They're all full of shit and they all know it. The few members on the staff that have integrity will do what it takes to protect their servicemembers.
Right now that means that the Navy is hedging its bets on the F-35 with the superior F/A-18 Ultra Hornet and the US Army is shelving the good performing Kiowa with Apaches to get more firepower in the air.
via DefenseNews.
WASHINGTON — US Army leaders are considering scrapping its entire fleet of Bell Helicopter OH-58 Kiowa Warrior helicopters, while pulling the National Guard’s Boeing AH-64 Apaches into the active-duty force to fill the scout helicopter role as the Army seeks to fulfill its longer-term requirement of a newly developed armed aerial scout, according to several Army and defense industry sources.I don't know. Yes, I'm guessing.
The plan also calls for giving active Black Hawk helicopters to the Guard, while taking half of the Guard’s Lakota fleet, using them as active-duty trainers and scrapping its Jet Rangers.
While a final decision has yet to be made, the industry sources had the impression that the deal was all but done.
The deal would be done in the interest of cutting costs and reducing the number of different helicopter types in the Army, but questions remain about the affordability of using the Apache to fill the scout role. Army leadership had already rejected the idea in the early 1990s in favor of the now-canceled Comanche, and expressed doubts about it in a 2011 analysis of alternatives (AoA) document.
The December 2011 AoA for the Armed Aerial Scout (AAS) program — which until last year was envisioned as the eventual replacement for the Kiowa — concluded that fielding the AH-64D Block III to the service’s armed reconnaissance squadrons to replace the Kiowa would be “at least 50 percent more expensive than the currently programmed [recon squadrons].”
The Army also concluded that the AH-64 requires “significantly more maintenance personnel than the other mixes analyzed.”
What’s more, a study conducted by the Logistics Management Institute recently estimated that in recent operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, if the Army used an Apache in the Kiowa scout role, it would have cost an additional $4 billion in fuel, maintenance and operating costs.
Still, “the Army is in a difficult position,” one defense industry source said. The Armed Aerial Scout AoA “said that the most affordable and capable option was Kiowa linked with the Shadow UAV. But the AoA also said that the most capable immediate solution is an Apache, so there’s two sides of this argument. So the Army really is making decisions around cost.”
“This is a budget-driven plan,” said Col. Frank Tate, the Army’s chief of aviation force development. “We are in a fiscally constrained environment, which requires us to make hard choices, but we need to also make smart choices. In developing this plan, everything was on the table.”
But I believe the US Army just told us what it thinks about the Air Force retiring the A-10. I think the US Army just told us what it thinks about the F-35 providing close air support. I think we're witnessing the first real indication of how the Army views the F-35. They're not impressed, they believe that the USAF is out of the close air support business and they're making moves to do it themselves.
The JCS likes to put on a happy face when it comes to jointness. They're all full of shit and they all know it. The few members on the staff that have integrity will do what it takes to protect their servicemembers.
Right now that means that the Navy is hedging its bets on the F-35 with the superior F/A-18 Ultra Hornet and the US Army is shelving the good performing Kiowa with Apaches to get more firepower in the air.
from picard578
ReplyDeleteDesign
CAS fighter needs to be stealthy, very maneuverable at low speed, and able to quickly attack the opponent. This means small size, low wing loading, straight wing and high thrust-to-weight ratio. Close-coupled canards are also advantageous for maneuverability, takeoff/landing performance and safety. Cannon should be of revolver design, with relatively large calibre and high rate of fire. Another requirement is good endurance, achieved by high fuel fraction. Engine will be single EJ230 in order to reduce profile to minimum and allow good acceleration.
http://defenseissues.wordpress.com/2013/12/07/close-air-support-fighter-proposal-revised/
Its a scheme to get more budget every year.The Army does not know what to do in the Pacific shift of strategy and will try to get more expensive platforms to justifie more budget every year.
ReplyDeleteSmall cheap helicopters that can do a better job than the Apache would show that you can cut the service budget and get a bigger more efficient force.No one whats that.Its the Army version of the USAFs F-35 vs F-16/A-10...
i disagree and if you look at the history of Army observation or scout helicopters then you know that the desire to have an armed helo capable of doing the role has been the desire for at least 20 years. look at the canceled Comanche . part of its basic load out was at least 4 hellfires. but the turning point is that the Army saw the Apache lite that Boeing was putting out and loved it. whats easier to do? take Apaches from the national guard and make them Apache lites or buying a new helicopter? in this budget environment its to take the planes.
DeleteWhich is why I think the US Army should have gotten some CAS Aircraft of their own such as A-29 Super Tucanos or put more stock into the Apaches.
ReplyDeleteIs the AH-1 still available? That would seem to fit the bill as an "Apache Lite".
ReplyDeleteAH-1 has been developed into a heavy wt attack helo. it weighs more and is bigger than the european tiger and is only just smaller than the apache. the big heavy wts are from the russians. quite honestly this move by the army has been long in coming. apaches have always provided a sort of scout role and aviation units operating with cav always do it. the main thing is going to be the attitude of the pilots. if you can put a Kiowa pilot into an apache and he maintains the same attitude of getting in the weeds with the grunts and get into knife fights with his plane then its gonna be great.
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ReplyDeleteIf the United States is attacked with nuclear weapons, having AH-64's in the National Guard won't mean a damn thing in the aftermath.
ReplyDeleteThat being said, Kiowas are a great scout platform, but every Brigade CDR has a Shadow UAV all their own, and Divisions get real Predators to play with. The need for a light scout helicopter is diminished as there are more eyes in the sky now. Since there are more eyes, they see more targets, so you need more platforms to bring the pain. The math is simple, and it adds up to the Kiowa being voted off the island.
And we don't trust the Air Force to care about CAS, the same way we don't trust the Air Force to care about COIN. The Air Force worries about Air Superiority and Nuclear War, and anything else is an afterthought.
you're right on so many levels but i really like the view on the guard. they need to be seen more at local disasters like tornados that destroy entire communities. i'm talking about a brigade of engineers and medics to help out...provide temp shelter to the citizens. they don't need attack helicopters for their main work. infantry brigades in the guard will still do their thing. same with stryker units but aviation is rather expensive and i would think the guard would be happy to be getting a cheaper bird.
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