First, read this story from "SHTF Plan Blog"....
Second, check out this from TPW Magazine...
I'm of serious mixed feelings on this one. Want to talk about some of the most dangerous law enforcement duty you can ever do and you're talking about game wardens. Every person you come across in the deep woods or desert is armed to the gills. On some hog hunts I go out with an AR-15 and almost a combat load of ammo plus a side arm...and thats to kill pigs.
Oh and trust me. I'm on the light side of things. I've seen guys that take arsenals out to the deep woods.
And all that is before you think about some of the characters you run into.
But this? I just don't know.
I seriously think this is setting up for one huge civil war in the making. The way the police are dressing themselves as Special forces wannabes. I bet they make the real Special Forces LAUGH at them. What these Police depts are trying to do is pretend their Special forces, like Delta, Seal team 6, Seal teams, Green Berets, Airborne and Rangers. When in reality, no police officer in America would never pass selection or schooling for Delta, Seal team 6, Seal teams, Green Berets,Airborne and Rangers. Those guys would never take a cop who would embarrass America on an overseas spec ops mission. What these cops are trying to do is play pretend special ops and knowing that they will never come close to the real thing.
ReplyDeleteThey do not worry about the hunters as much as the drug runners. Who can forget these:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.khou.com/news/Heavily-armed-Texas-gunboats-patrol-Rio-Grande-160760375.html
The numbers say that Game Warden's dying in the line of duty is a damn rare thing. http://www.southeasternoutdoors.com/outdoors/hunting/game-warden/game-wardens-killed-on-duty-state.html
ReplyDeleteSo I don't buy the need to be all "Tactical Timmy" when they are basically doing the same job as any rural deputy.
To put the risk in comparison, it is slightly more dangerous than carrying the mail, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_postal_killings and much safer than being an innocent bystander to a high speed chase involving the police, http://www.realpolice.net/articles/police-pursuits/police-pursuits-and-the-risks.html
Game laws enable the game warden and state to confiscate every piece of property a poacher has (which I have no problem with) BUT, for dudley deer poacher it's nothing, yet for the everyday hunter who is sneaking in a kill it's devastating enough to make killing a warden worthwhile in their wee minds.
ReplyDeleteThe Wardens I see don't normally resemble a US Navy SEAL somewhere north of Tora Bora while walking the woods near here on patrol.
Sometimes the over kill in projected power is enough but sometimes it just brings on the violence that it's supposed to protect against.
Ok, I actually read both of the stories above and if someone would actually read the TPWD magazine it seems as if they are trying to get more state funding by being able to directly support smaller counties that do not have anyone with the training for hostage rescue, plain ol search and rescue,and drug dogs. A K9 with training runs up to 50k each. some county with a few thousand people in it does not have the funds for something like that where as a state wide agency Game wardens can justify using the dog for trying to locate poached game, and if the locals call for help then they show up. All the game wardens I have met have been good about working with locals. It builds a better relationship between the two.
ReplyDeleteNow for all those saying the more tactical units are wanna be special ops your nuts. Just because they use some of the same equipment doesn't mean they are trained to do the same thing. It is a simple fact that having the gear they do is much easier on them and they can carry more than a regular patrol officer.
No police are not trained to ambush the Taliban, but we are getting more training in how to fight someone with military training. Unfortunately this is due to guys coming back with some f'ed up things going on in their heads and no real support when they get back. Its sad I have run into quite a few and tried everything I could think of to get a family member to come help them and its 50 50 that it turned into a hands on fight.
If these guys are helping out on the boarder you may have no idea that the small county departments get into it with the drug smugglers all the time. Heck they had to fight a Mexican army apc with a .50 slapped on top of it a few years ago.
Tony, look up "mission creep" and understand that it is a BAD thing. You don't want a Game Warden also being a K9 unit also being a Drug Interdiction task force also being a Border Enforcement agent.
ReplyDeleteBecause if you give Tactical Timmy all that gear and say, "Look, we know your official title says 'Game Warden' but really you are the go to man for whenever anyone out here needs a dog team, or on call to secure the border of these here United States of 'Murica, well Timmy, you are the man. And remember that now you have to worry more about people smuggling coyotes than coyote poachers, so shoot first and ask questions later so you can go home to the little woman at night."
I'm tired of Cops bitching about how hard their job is, about how it is a "war zone" out there. You have no clue, and if you are getting more training on ambushing military objectives, odds are you will use it to kill innocent people like Jose Guerena, and end up costing taxpayers millions in the follow on settlement. Should avoid all that drama to begin with and make everyone happier. Or you could make like the New Mexico sexual assault department and force things up peoples butts. Because war on drugs or something someone felt the need to shred the Constitution.
Yes mission creep is bad, but local budgets are getting cut so the do everything officer will be happening more and more. I doubt they ride around all dressed to do a warrant search or active shooter. For 90% of their time they will probably be in their normal patrol gear.
DeleteOh another point the wildlife department is funded by the taxes paid when you go buy guns, ammo, and fishing gear. How much do you bet in the last few years while others budgets were shrinking those federal grants kept getting bigger?
I have not seen anyone write on this blog anywhere that its a war zone in America. It would be my hope we never get to a point like in Brazil where they have true raid teams and they have massive shootouts in tight neighborhoods just to kick in the drug dealers front door.
Chicago may seem like it with as many people getting shot there. Between 2012 and 2013 the number of shooting victims dropped from 3,066 to 2,328. Add that up divide it by the population of 2.7 million and you have close to a 1 in 500 chance to get shot in a 2 year time frame, this depends on the number of times in two years people were shot on more than one occasion. I bet depending on the neighborhood you live in that number drops. It still isn’t a war zone, but damn if I want to live and work there. By the way another sign restricting gun rights does not work.
Now, I must not have made myself clear enough police are being taught how to counter being ambushed by someone using military tactics due to the gang members that somehow getting into the military and bringing back their training to the streets.
I wouldn’t use Jose Guerena as my poster child for someone being ”murdered by police.”
The indictment alleged that members of the Guerena family imported, stashed and sold bulk quantities of marijuana to brokers or distributors who would travel to Tucson to buy it at wholesale prices. Handwritten records found at Alejandro Guerena's home documented the sale of at least 10,553 pounds of marijuana for between $475 and $600 per pound, the indictment said.
By the way it looks like one brother was convicted, the other arrested finally, and Jose’s wife, sister in law, and father in law were planning to plea out…..
They should have waited until the criminal court case was made and taken these degenerates to court so they wouldn’t get a dime from the tax payers. Well I’m sure they will get welfare.
I already commented on the New Mexico search incident before and I’m still wondering how a judge thought they could do that.
watch your fucking mouth. thats a Marine you're talking about. links if you're gonna make those types of allegations, otherwise you crossed a line Tony.
DeleteIt would be a hard case to say he was not involved in some way or knowingly knew what his family was doing. I hate to say it, but it appears just by google searching everyone in the family was involved. He served his country and you can't take that away from him. His dope dealing family, who all seem to have gotten very light sentences, have millions because of his death.
ReplyDeleteDidn't mean to cross a line.
I'm just tired of people throwing out shootings and obviously they never looked passed the headline or whatever the family says what happened.
://www.kvoa.com/news/alleged-drug-kingpin-alejandro-guerea-sentenced-tuesday
http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crime/suspected-pot-trafficker-captured/article_0a760a7c-b5f4-52bc-8e8e-695770af1285.html
http://www.nbc12.com/story/18758000/authorities-seek-2-men-in-connection-with-alleged-drug-ring
typical. LEOs suddenly label the entire family drug dealers because they fucked up, killed a Marine and left him to bleed out while they were trying to play soldier.
DeleteYOU KNOW WHAT PISSES ME OFF ABOUT THESE 'TACTICAL TEAMS'? THEY NEVER SHOW UP TO GO AFTER MS-13, CRIPS, BLOODS, HELLS ANGELS, MEXICAN MAFIA OR ANY OF THE BAD ASSES OF SOCIETY.
but be a middle class American and they ride out hard to kick in your door, paw your wife while they act like they're tough and then talk aobut how they're all on our side.
i was wavering but you reminded me of the real attitude that many LEOs have when it comes to citizens.
i was fooling myself.
its citizens against police.
Sol: There it is Buddy, always the LEO seem to go after those with the least power and the least number of supporters in the federal gov and local city hall.
DeleteJose Guerena was clean or his widow wouldn't be a few million richer right now.
ReplyDeleteWhat the police did was a classic "association network" where they go through things like phone records, known family ties, known associates, etc. Once they put all that onto a board (could be a whiteboard if they are old school, could be Palantir if they are well funded) they draw links between everything. If you have a brother who is shady, dealing a substance that is legal in three states (but not Arizona), then instead of doing something called "actual detective work" which is trailing suspects, going through their garbage, analyzing bank accounts, and eliminating people from the whiteboard who aren't explicitly tied to the illicit activity, they went ahead and did the "brute force" fishing expedition method.
That means they went in guns blazing, and literally found nothing to justify their action. Where else have I seen this story? SOCOM, specifically in Afghanistan where pilots were dropping Hellfires on cars simply because someone inside had a phone with a particular number. http://truth-out.org/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=3588:how-mcchrystal-and-petraeus-built-an-indiscriminate-killing-machine
So there you have it, tactical teams full of "Tactical Timmy's" using wartime tactics to do a job that simply requires thoughtful analysis of available data and meticulous evidence gathering. But thougthtful analysis and meticulous evidence gathering doesn't justify the use of a Tac Team and all that cool guy gear to the bean counters.
So yes, mission creep is a very very bad thing. And cry me a river about shrinking budgets. I don't care.