Nicky gave me this idea and I will expand on it in the future...
Question. How would a modern day civil war play out?
Answer?
I have no idea. I do know that the tables have turned in a massive way since the first one though.
Military. The South, Midwest and many of the Rocky Mountain states houses the majority of our military units. Quite honestly the only major units that exist outside of the "Red" states is the 1st MarDiv, 25th Inf Div, 10th Mtn Div and a number of ships stationed at San Diego. The 2nd MarDiv, 82nd Abn Div, 1st Inf Div, 101st Abn (AAslt) Div, SOCOM and numerous other units (both AF and Navy) live and breath in the Red.
Resources. Ditto. Off shore oil, on land drilling, forestry, etc...are found primarily in the red states.
Industrial capacity. The same. The only major industries found in the blue states are finance (Wall Street) and to some extent movie making (Hollywood---but they're losing out as movies are going to cheaper locations in the US and Canada). Boeing is in Washington State but has much of its manufacturing in middle America and Lockheed Martin (the people I love to hate because of the F-35) are in Texas. Red wins again.
Food Production. The same on steroids. California has a robust agricultural industry but it pales in comparison to the rest of the red states. Additionally beef, poultry, wheat and other grains are all in the red states.
Summation. I'm just mudballing while waiting to watch the SeaHawks get throat punched by the 49ers. Don't take this seriously.
 |
| via OGLAF Comics (over 18)...could this be the thoughts of a future American President? |
Answer?
I have no idea. I do know that the tables have turned in a massive way since the first one though.
Military. The South, Midwest and many of the Rocky Mountain states houses the majority of our military units. Quite honestly the only major units that exist outside of the "Red" states is the 1st MarDiv, 25th Inf Div, 10th Mtn Div and a number of ships stationed at San Diego. The 2nd MarDiv, 82nd Abn Div, 1st Inf Div, 101st Abn (AAslt) Div, SOCOM and numerous other units (both AF and Navy) live and breath in the Red.
Resources. Ditto. Off shore oil, on land drilling, forestry, etc...are found primarily in the red states.
Industrial capacity. The same. The only major industries found in the blue states are finance (Wall Street) and to some extent movie making (Hollywood---but they're losing out as movies are going to cheaper locations in the US and Canada). Boeing is in Washington State but has much of its manufacturing in middle America and Lockheed Martin (the people I love to hate because of the F-35) are in Texas. Red wins again.
Food Production. The same on steroids. California has a robust agricultural industry but it pales in comparison to the rest of the red states. Additionally beef, poultry, wheat and other grains are all in the red states.
Summation. I'm just mudballing while waiting to watch the SeaHawks get throat punched by the 49ers. Don't take this seriously.
Watching the throat-punched trophy holders of the NFC... makes me think it's real good you added that "Don't take this seriously." comment at the end there. ;)
ReplyDeleteyou can't beat the other team AND the Referees! i have never seen such a poorly officiated championship game in a looong long time.
ReplyDeletei bet Seattle is real proud of the thug that showed up on camera talking smack about the other teams wide receiver too.
a real class act those boys are....and people wonder why i think Carrol is a disease to every organization he's associated with. he's the General Amos of professional football.
Pete Carrol maybe classless. But Jim Harbaugh is a douchebag. I always disliked his arrogance since his days of playing QB for the Bears.
DeleteIt would be very messed up. But I would bet on the red states, because it's a long ways between California and New York, and not a whole lot of blue states to route any sort of logistics through. Except Canada I guess.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I see our Military fracturing rapidly, except for the national guard. Since we are splitting state wise, I doubt very many of the troops from blue or red states would want to fight for whatever state they were stationed in. What the Navy would do is probably even more interesting.
The real question is, where would the rest of the world stand? Would the EU help their liberal buddies? I don't see the Russians or the Chinese providing much help to either side, or either side accepting that help.
I wonder what it will take for the red states to mobilize and leave the Union? How many rights need to be legislated away?
the real question would be a bit closer to home. we can expect the Chinese to side with no one and to take money from everyone. Canada will be its usual diplomatic self and take no position. the EU would be irrelevant. they will wait till the last minute and jump on the side of the winner. the real question will be what will Mexico do. if they side with the blue states then you're talking about a two front war....additionally they can make up for some of the resources that the blue states will desperately need and provide missing manufacturing capacity. the red states would need a quickly formed govt and some real savoy diplomats to keep it from becoming the world against the red.
ReplyDeletethe states are too dependent on one another and the federal government today. the red states take far more from federal govt than they give with a few exceptions. The military is too homogeneous and the identity of Americans is far stronger than most states. I think its not a reasonable future, the union is too strong today than it was back then. It was the civil war that broke the states power for the most part and gave the federal government more power. Also americans have come to rely on govt services, schools, police, fire, social programs, those would collapse almost immediately in most if not all states, a war would be impossible because no one would pay for it, military units are expensive and i think most people would go back and protect their families and few to take land, i would envision anarchy or factionalization even within states than a true civil war but a civil war is nothing but weakness, not strength. If people dont like whats going on you win elections, not battles.
ReplyDelete"If people dont like whats going on you win elections, not battles." Yeah, because it's not like all politicians are carbon copies of one another who put their own re-election chances above the good of their country.
Deleteyeah thats another one they like to talk about. "win elections"...well guess what. we elected the House of Representatives to block what the Obama Admin is doing. what do liberals do? they complain about the "do nothing Congress"!
DeleteTHATS THE WAY I WANT IT. I DON'T WANT THOSE SORRY BASTARDS TO PASS ANOTHER LAW, AND THEY SHOULD HAVE LEFT SEQUESTRATION IN PLACE BUT THE SPEND HAPPY MOTHERFUCKERS DIDN'T HAVE THE BALLS TO DO WHATS NECESSARY TO GET US OUT OF THE HOLE WE'RE IN.
SO INSTEAD THEY DEFAULT TO THEIR OLD WAYS OF SPENDING MONEY THEY DON'T HAVE!
PART OF THE WAR AGAINST CHINA IS ECONOMIC!!!!! WHY CAN'T PEOPLE SEE THAT!!!!
that makes sense Joe except that we're entering a period where a small slice of the country is imposing its morals on values on the rest of the country.
ReplyDeleteadditionally civil war would be the most "peaceful" of the dystopian futures that are imaginable.
with a civil war you have at least functioning govts in warring states. in an economic collapse you have anarchy. complete and total anarchy.
which is more palatable?
small slice imposing its values on teh country? not sure what your talking about, if your thinking gay marriage a majority of americans support same sex marriage, and they are forcing people to become gay but simply asking for the same legal rights as other couples get (separate is not equal, also see Loving v. Virginia). not sure what else your talking about, abortion rights are being rolled back in many states with the OK of the courts so thats imposing their values on others right? if its such a small slice why do the majority not fight back? what is keeping this vast majority you say are being pushed around from pushing back?
ReplyDeletenot sure what you mean economic collapse are you saying either or? i dont forsee an economic collapse without a civil war type scenario of members of the union breaking off, economy is anemic but making gains, people are leaving job market but the problem is jobs that are out there people arent trained for, we need better job training and training those who have skills that are no longer needed.
sorry Joe. rant time. i so despise the talking point that the red states get far more back in taxes than the blue states.
ReplyDeletethats utter bullshit. louisiana doesn't get royalties from the US for the oil thats taken from it. you talk about subsidies to farmers but all that is doing is keeping food prices controlled. so you talk about where tax receipts go include the fact that the blue states also are the source of nothing but regulations, rules and cost increasing items. the only thing New York makes is artificial money from wall street.
its a false system that is built on pricing imaginary goods like they're real.
gay marriage, gun control, rules and regulations...there are tons of stuff that washington, hollywood and liberals are trying to force on the rest of the country.
its tiresome.
Sorry but there are some things that are right no matter what the majority thinks. There was once a time when the majority of Americans thought that black people and white people should go to separate schools and drink from separate water fountains. Then a minority of moral people stood up and told them they were wrong. Matters of morality are not subject to the will of the majority. Gay people deserve to not be discriminated against. Period.
Deletei can live with that. but there are some lines that shouldn't be crossed in that quest. first lets be honest about something.
Deletethe only way that i can be sure that a person is gay is if they insist on telling me. walking down the street you can't tell a straight person from a gay person unless they make a point of broadcasting it to the world.
second. lets admit something else. marriage is a church function that has been adopted by the state. as long as gay marriage is a province of the state and isn't pushed into churches then you don't have an argument.
third. lets be honest about the gay life style. have you seen the uncensored pics of the San Francisco gay rights parade? if heterosexuals acted that way in public arrests would be going on around the clock.
fourth. lets be honest about pedophiles. for the most part, they are acting out homosexual tendencies mixed with the attraction to young children. look up the stats for yourself but if girls were the majority of the victims of pedophiles there would be major outrage in the public. but because boys are the majority of the victims and because the men that prey on them are mostly gay then its given a wink and a nod. the closest that women come to predatory behavior of this type is the epidemic of female teachers screwing male students...but for boys that's a right of passage so again, the victim is male and its given a wink and a nod.
but lastly the issue isn't gay marriage. it could have been managed much better than it has been. its a wedge issue. designed to give the Obama admin cred with wealthy gays, to piss off conservatives and to act to unit them all.
personally i can't wait to watch what happens when this happy band breaks up. natural opponents are going to clash and conservatism will see a resurgence.
From a french pov, i can't understand why you want a civil war instead of a revolution. You just need to change fake democraty (controlled by lobby and bankster) for the real one: at worst, you just have to s&d people from goldman sachs and their friends...
DeleteReal demoscraty didn't elected president : president was chosen by lottery, and validated by a commision, himself chosen by lottery and validated by all citizen, in order to avoid fool and criminal. No possibility to make more than one mandatory. With internet, that is possible. Look at sweiss, they ask everyone of their citizen, for each important thing like gay mariage, health care, bank regulation or gripen buy.
a revolution would indicate that the majority of the people agree that the govt is acting improperly. we don't have that in the US. what we do have is groups of people that live in certain locations that disagree on the future course of this country.
Deletea house divided and all that jazz.
quite honestly i don't see a solution outside of stalemate in the Congress. liberals will continue to win Presidential elections but the House of Representatives will reflect the views of the red states. the problem with that likely outcome is that it will allow nations that are hostile to continue to close the gap.
what does that mean? more than likely an ally will fall because we can't get our house together. Taiwan will revert to Chinese rule. the Japanese will lose islands etc...
The revolution are not the fact of majority !
DeleteThe revolution of 1789 was the revolution of a minority : the Middle class of Paris.
Even if the entire farmer france was starved by the governement, they didn't act ! But, when the revolution decapited the king, th majority followed the movement.
That's the thing governments want you to forget : Everybdy action is important.
Why do you think URSS, nazi germany was so intrusive in publice life, why just saying "Fuck stalin" iat home in URSS became dangerous ! because it is for the government !
well actually when it comes to taxes the south gets more than it gives (http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_reckoning/2012/10/25/blue_state_red_face_guess_who_benefits_more_from_your_taxes.html) but again sol your talking about things that a republic is suppose to handle through democratic means, first of all gay marriage is about a contract between two people, it doesnt involve anyone else, and in a decade wont be an issue at all because younger people dont care as much and support same sex marriage. You talked about it being used as a wedge issue, well gay marriage was used as a wedge issue in 2004 and the bump in turn out in some key states gave GWB reelection, both parties do that. You talk about gun control but congress hasnt passed major gun legislation and supreme court has codified gun rights, and you talk about regulations but again this is for the elected branches of government to do. We shouldnt be talking about civil war because then your talking about turning weapons on your own countrymen, whether you agree with them or not. The problem is people have this sense that i am right and you are wrong mentality on both sides and i do believe good people can come together for good solutions on any problem. I dont want to think about having to turn guns against our own people because liberals/conservatives, tea party, republicans, democrats, etc all Americans and yes we are diverse but we need to stop using strong rhetoric, control emotions and start solving problems. We have a system for a reason and our system works aside from its imperfect nature. Thats why we have never had a violent change in government, lets focus on solutions and not further divisions, this goes for all of the political spectrum
Deleteturn weapons on my fellow countrymen? what do you think war is? its politics by another means. get up to speed on military theory. read some of the works by the tactical greats. every single one of them talks about war as being part of settling political issues that have bogged down or led one side to think that they're being treated unfairly.
Deletebut let me be even more blunt.
this system is in my mind hopelessly broken.
this system is in need of an industrial sized enema.
i won't cheer on the chaos. but i wouldn't weep if it did come. i'd strap on and deal with the pain...in a southern way.
Look into 5GW. That is how it will be done.
ReplyDeleteThere is no such thing as 5GW. People who talk about 5GW confuse modes and means of conflict with generations of warfare.
Deletehttp://www.lewrockwell.com/2004/02/william-s-lind/fifth-generation-warfare/
Re "California has a robust agricultural industry but it pales in comparison to the rest of the red states"
ReplyDeleteNot so robust as people think, major problems due to lack of water.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/california-declares-drought-emergency-1.2501802?cmp=rss
You are running into the absolute limits of their water resources in some parts of the country and will need to make some difficult choices, soon
But this isn't just a California thing, Alabama, Georgia, and Tennessee are in that same boat.
DeleteWhat about high education and R&D? The brain power drives the economy of 21st century, right? Almost all of top universities (no I am not talking about football here) are located in the upper states. MIT, ivy league, UC Berkeley, Caltech, the list goes on and on. George Tech is the lone exception. There is a reason why you have more hi-tech company clusters in the north. The two largest ones being silicon valley in northern cal and route 128 around Boston. The nation's nano tech center and most advanced semiconductor base are both located in upper state NY. Folks from the south tend to be less proficient in science and technology, or maybe that's just my perception.
ReplyDeleteIt wouldn't be so geographically convenient as to break down into red states vs. blue states.
ReplyDeleteRemember the Three Block War concept? That's what it would be. Neighborhoods, small cities, belts of communities. I can drive 30 min outside of the urban center I live in and it is a profoundly different, rural and conservative culture.
With that said, the cities with ports and infrastructure would be more liberal in general and could refuse to allow goods to travel in or out of ports. Rural areas could embargo food to the cities.