via PhilStar.
MANILA, Philippines - The Philippine Army will acquire 14 M113 armored personnel carriers in 2015 to boost its fire support capabilities.When I first saw this I cheered and groaned. I cheered because the M113 is a good APC that has great mobility, amphibious, and is easy to work on. Groaned because I wondered why revert back to a 76mm gun instead of going with a readily available 90mm gun from Textron or even follow the Egyptian Fighting Vehicle model and mount a Bradley turret on the M113.
Army spokesperson Capt. Anthony Bacus said the M113 vehicles will be installed with 76-mm turrets among others from decommissioned Scorpion combat vehicle reconnaissance (tracked) units.
"It will be fitted with modern fire control and thermal imaging equipment. Once it is completed, the 76mm cannon armed M113s will be quite lethal," Bacus added.
The Army is currently operating over 100 M113 units, and the would-be acquisitions are manufactured by BAE Systems Land and Armaments.
In the United States Army, the M113 series have been replaced as front-line combat vehicles by the M2 and M3 Bradley.
The Department of National Defense had said that more than P85 billion is needed for the modernization of the Armed Forces of the Philippines from 2014 to 2018.
Last year, the Army commissioned excess M1114 Armored Humvees as well as M939 and M35 truck series from the US. The new fighting vehicles provided fire support during the Zamboanga siege last September.
Is this a money saving feature. Or it could be an indication that jungle fighting requires a different vehicle setup than we're used to seeing? I'm leaning toward the latter.
I wouldn't want a 76 mm for our country but it is a definite step up for philippines and the price is right.
ReplyDeleteI really do want bigger guns on the Stryker and MPC though. The 30 mm HEAB/HEDP and 2 ITOWs would be perfect.
The PI really has some rather asymmetrical battle needs. Many smaller vehicles with light guns really suits their needs. That and they're cheap compared to other options, though they did consider the AMX-30.
ReplyDeleteWith their upcoming deal for FA50 jets from South Korea, they may be saving a little jingly coin for other purchases while still trying to upgrade their capabilities.
Which is why What the Philippines need is a good MBT such as the Leopard 2A5, Leopard 2A6, M60 Patton,Magach 6 and 7 or the Merkava Tank.
ReplyDeleteThose are all nice tanks, but the philppines isn't a heavily militarized country. They only spend 1.3 % gdp on their military. Javelin antitank launchers, M 93 hornet, 81 mm mortars and IEDS would be my weapons of choice for anti armor with that amount of money.
DeleteCome on guys lets not go this route lol too. I want an Abrams!
We are prioritizing our Navy and Air Force rather than the Army... They only choose APCs and IFVs and Upgrading the capability to Suppress terrorism and Internal Security... While the Air force and Navy in External Security...
DeleteWe have only less Budget allotted for the Military... 85B Peso... Or 190M Dollars Only... then Divided to the Army, Air force and Navy... So we have to Improvise weapons such as UAVs ...
Our Surveillance UAV is very Cheap... Just a Hundred dollars... but very Reliable... But you can't simply beat a Philippine Army... He can live for months without supply...
I doubt there are many if any bridges capable of supporting or enough transport in the Phillipine Navy for any heavy tanks. KT Jr is right on the money in saying the better investment would be in ATGWs and other smart munitions. Considering how long the Filipino guerrillas held out against the Japanese, a nation like China would be stupid to consider invading a foreign country with triple canopy jungle and hundreds of islands.
DeleteThe US should divert some of the Egyptian military aid and donate a billion dollars worth of updated F-16C/Ds to the Philippines.
I highly doubt the Philippines can afford the F-16C/D's, with their high Maintenance and operation cost. On top of that,, their's the cost for training, support and weapons. they Their more likely to go for either the India's Tejas LCA, Israel's Block 60 Kfir Fighter or Swedish Gripen C/D or Gripen NG.
DeleteAs for MBT's, I think their best bet is to go to Israel because Israel is trying to get Magach 6 and 7 or the Merkava Mark 1/2/3 Tank. I think the Merkava would serve them well cause it can carry a squad as well and have been well used in the Lebanon war as well.
The one problem with the Philippines is that their one of the poorest and most corrupt countries. Their Military right now can't stand up to China and don't have a creditable Military in the face of China. Their Military lags way behind their neighbors which have a better Military than the Philippines.
Buying Israeli-made equipment is going to be a huge "magnet" against the Muslin extremist of the South. It's no way to make friends.
DeleteGetting F-16, Abrams, Bradleys, Javelins ... these are very useless. Too much high-tech and small items like Javelins can find their way to the hands of the people the PA are fighting against. Corruption is very rife. Down south, some soldiers, officers and NCOs are known to be related to the extremists BY MARRIAGE. Go figure!
The setup of this M-113 will be a pill-box of sort. The PA will make sure the way is clear before they deploy the M-113 to provide limited fire support. Remember one thing is still vital: AMMUNITION.
It is still not clear how the gun crews are trained. It is not yet clear how the guns will be maintained.
No MBTs for the Philippines, MBTs are essentially offensive weapons, and the Philippines is not geared towards offense (except of course attack platforms necessary for defense against choppers, planes, ships and we are not planning to invade any country. Might just go for the tank-killers (Anti-Tank weapons) instead.. light, fast, and versatile…which could be mounted in our existing High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicle (HMMWV), V150s, Simbas & M113s.
DeleteI bet its money, maybe they have a bunch of turrets and 76mm ammo in storage
ReplyDeleteThe answer's in the article itself: they're using turrets from their decommissioned Scorpion tanks, so yes it's to save money. The scorpion turret integration is also a completely known quantity and, if the Aussies will give them the plans, they won't even need to do any design work. Presumably they have ammunition stocks left over from the tanks as well, so that's more money saved.
ReplyDelete76mm is going to be almost as good as 90mm for HE work. The 90mm would be a far better weapon if any anti-armor action was in the cards and will generally have more modern ammo but 76mm will be just fine for blasting away at guerrilla strongpoints and the occasional hotel full of coup plotters.
Just a reminder, you blogged about the Australian version in Oct 2012. http://snafu-solomon.blogspot.com/2012/10/blast-from-past-m113-fire-support.html
When your primary purpose is internal defence against enemies like the MILF, a 76mm gun is every bit as good as a bigger gun. That the M113 can carry a lot more than a Scorpion is a huge benefit when supply trains get long. This is a good system for infantry support, although a wheeled platform would be better from a stealth perspective, but cost prohibitive if a wheeled chassis isn't already in the inventory.
ReplyDeleteActually the Philippine Army does have wheeled armored vehicles (LAV-300 6 x 6) which are suitable for the Scorpion Turrets but they already mount a Cockerill 90 mm Mk III gun. Anyway the M113s will more than suffice, but I just wish they rethink in installing RPG cages for all to defeat the RPG-2s (or B-40s) of the MILF.
DeleteShort barrel as well so easier to move around tight terrain. Nice picture of the Aussie "beast". Much loved and missed.
ReplyDeleteIf I may add, they also already have quite a few of these conversions and have done the conversions themselves.
ReplyDeleteYes the Philippine Army converted some M113s into a Fire Support Vehicle FSV in the mid 90s. Actually one of those conversions was destroyed in 2000 by the MILF using an Indigenous RPG-2 (B-40 Vietnamese version).
DeleteLight tank/APC combined, kind of a Merkava light combo. If the Filipino's need anti tank capabilities they can go missiles, either on board as the Bradley does or with the dismounts as a tank killer team.
ReplyDeleteThe infrastructure of the roads and bridges won't allow much freedom of movement for Abrams/leopard sized vehicles, nor the budget where an M-113 can go just about anywhere in their nation. The abilities of the M-113 during the Vietnam war are well known.
Add on reactive armor and a laser range finder can make that 76 mm a deadly weapon with the newer ammunition.
I like the idea it makes for an attractive fast and agile vehicle of which the price makes buying a great many possible.
Off the shelf style, American space pens vs Soviet Space pencils scenario come to mind.
The Merkava would have been perfect for the Philippines cause it combines a MBT with an APC. That way they have an MBT with APC capability. I can see them using the Merkava in the Philippines.
DeleteNot with the Merkava price tag. The Philippines isn't exactly rolling in cash to waste on an MBT that has no parity threat from anything outside of China or Japan. If you can't buy enough to be a credible deterrent, don't buy any to begin with.
DeleteMBT won't work either. Too heavy. Some of the bridges in the southern Philippines can't hold more than 15 tonnes.
DeleteIdeally, PA would need the following:
1. Wheeled - Axles and wheels can be easily replaced and fixed when it gets hit by landmine (favorite weapons of choice by extremists);
2. Ample firepower - Easy to maintain, nearly End-of-Sale (so ample spare parts);
3. Ample protection of crews and passenger
4. Wheeled base - no room for tracks in the south
5. Lightweight - roads and bridges can't cope with heavy load
6. Diesel - Gasoline too expensive
I can see a Used M-60 or the Magach 6 and 7, which is a modified M-60.
DeleteThe Swedish CV90-120 would have been better, lighter than the typical MBT but has the same firepower.
DeleteAre they using decommissioned Phillipines or British Scorpion turrets? Since the Phillipines is already a (former?) user of the Scorpion, mating its turret on an M113 makes sense from a logistics, maintenance, and training standpoint.
ReplyDeleteThey will be using our phased-out Scorpion Tanks for that.
DeleteFor you Information(what I have learn) these M113's are coming as a grant to Phil Army. I think US Army doing some modification to the M113 fleet which are not in use with them and providing it to Phil Army (can we call them as second hand???), as US Army's M113 series have long been replaced as front-line combat vehicles by the M2 and M3 Bradley, large numbers are still used for support missions, including armoured ambulances, mortar carriers, engineer vehicles and command vehicles, among others.
ReplyDeleteYes it is true what we will be getting are used equipment and yes they have been taken out of service by the US Army. But take note that these stored M113s will be refurbished like new by BAE Systems Land and Armaments before delivery to the Philippines.
DeleteIf the PH Army was going to have an MBT, the CV90-120 of the Swedish is better, it is an AFV modified to have the 120mm gun typically found in NATO tanks as well as in Japanese and South Korean tanks.
ReplyDelete