Thanks Michael..this is EYE OPENING!
via FBO.gov
THE US ARMY CAN'T BE SERIOUS! They want to be able to transport 9 Soldiers with an internally carried vehicle (inside a CH-47)...want it light enough to be sling loaded by a UH-60....and they've essentially said screw land mines because we're going to use off road mobility to be where the mines ain't!
This tells me everything I need to know.
The US Army is in a tailspin over the pivot to the Pacific and they see themselves in a real deal fight for relevancy.
Its really unfortunate for not only the Army but the nation. The US needs a credible Army to fight wars. Not another expeditionary force.
via FBO.gov
Below are the threshold ULCV general requirements providing enhanced mobility for IBCT Soldiers.Read the entire posting here.
a. Payload. Vehicle must carry Infantry Squad (9 Soldiers) with equipment (3200 lbs).
b. Protection. Base level of protection is provided by high mobility to avoid enemy contact and Soldier Personal Protection Equipment (PPE) (since the vehicle supports dismounted Soldiers).
c. Survivability. The ULCV (at GVW) shall provide a crashworthy vehicle structure capable of maintaining structural integrity in a rollover; quantified as a crush resistant roof structure or rollover bars capable of supporting 100% of its own GVW after a dynamically applied impact load.
d. Mobility.
a) Provide mobility with 10% on primary roads, 10% on secondary roads, 75% cross-country and trails, and 5% in urban, rubble environment.
b) Perform in Terrain level III (ridges/summits)
c) Routinely tasked to hold position on cross-country and trail conditions.
e. Lethality. Provide threshold capability to host crew served weapons assigned to an IBCT Infantry squad. Objective is to incorporate a medium caliber weapon into squad operations.
f. Transportability.
a) Internally transportable by CH-47 (in combat configuration under High/Hot conditions).
b) Sling load transportable by UH-60 (in combat configuration under High/Hot conditions).
c) Air drop from C130 on 463L pallet (in combat configuration).
d) Air drop from C17 dual row 463L pallet (in combat configuration).
g. Sustainability. Maintain high operational readiness rates through rugged construction and modular component replacement under field conditions.
h. Protection. Vehicle will provide FMVSS compliant restraints to Soldiers riding inside the vehicle and storage capability for individual equipment and squad equipment.
i. Range. 250-300 mile range on internal fuel.
j. No add-on communication equipment requirement.
THE US ARMY CAN'T BE SERIOUS! They want to be able to transport 9 Soldiers with an internally carried vehicle (inside a CH-47)...want it light enough to be sling loaded by a UH-60....and they've essentially said screw land mines because we're going to use off road mobility to be where the mines ain't!
This tells me everything I need to know.
The US Army is in a tailspin over the pivot to the Pacific and they see themselves in a real deal fight for relevancy.
Its really unfortunate for not only the Army but the nation. The US needs a credible Army to fight wars. Not another expeditionary force.
Closest you can get to this specs is with the Mungo from KMW ,but i think its off road preformance is quite limited. Maybe they improved that in Mungo 2 and 3
ReplyDeletehttp://www.kmweg.com/home/wheeled-vehicles/mungo/mungo-group-vehicle/product-information.html
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/mungo-armoured-multirole-transport-vehicles/
The Mungo is a POS and a rolling death trap. Far to small wheels therefore off road performance laughable.
DeleteAccording to size and weight I could imagine an unarmored Wiesel 3 with roll cage.
Here some design studies:
http://www.vw-bulli.de/uploads/pics/panzer_1.JPG
http://www.vw-bulli.de/uploads/pics/panzer2.JPG
http://www.vwclub-rheinneckar.de/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/20130206-205753.jpg
The BV206? It shows to be internally transportable, but having really 2 platforms I wonder if it could be sling loaded or for that matter air drop able.
ReplyDeleteCrack. It's what Big Army is smoking. It's the only way I could explain it.
ReplyDeleteToyota Hilux? Already used by many rebel groups in Africa so it's combat proven....
ReplyDeletehttp://i.imgur.com/4k3Tj.jpg
Think "dune buggy" meets "Ford Econoline Van" for rapid deployment in support of Light Infantry forces. What is interesting is that the HMMWV already meets the requirements in M998 Troop Carrier configuration with one man to spare. Driver, VC, 8 guys in the back is ten men. Simply adding a gun ring for an M2 or M240 and a gun position between the Driver and VC that extends back into the cargo area. With the upgrades to the 6.5 turbo diesel engine it is a very good off road platform. And in case you are wondering, thin skinned HMMWVs are what Soldiers and Marines did most of their patrolling with in Iraq between 2003 and 2005 before the IED became a widespread terrorist TTP.
ReplyDeleteFit inside a Chinook? Check
Slung under a Blackhawk? Check
Capable of transporting a 9 man squad? Check
The only thing missing is a rollover cage.
US definition for medium cal. weapon is at least 20mm.
ReplyDeleteThe most likely candidate is the Supacat HMT licensed to Lockheed Martin as the 'Common Vehicle Next Generation' (CVNG) http://lockheedmartin.com/us/products/commonvehicle.html
ReplyDeleteLM recently had the vehicle partake in the the US Army's 'Army Expeditionary Warrior Experiment' (AEWE) Spiral I; Spiral I technology quad charts can be viewed here: http://www.benning.army.mil/mcoe/cdid/aewe/content/pdf/SpiralTech.pdf
The LM CVNGs description matches several of the characteristics described in the FBO solicitation:
11 pers capacity
CH47 internal transportability
310 mile operational range on internal fuel
Looks like a Kraka on steroids:
Deletehttp://www.panzerbaer.de/helper/bw_lkw_00-75t_gl_kraka-a.htm
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kraka
folded: http://up.picr.de/3902044.jpg
I prefer tracks: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Carrier
adaptus primus,
ReplyDeleteGo ahead and back up your "medium caliber is 20mm" statement, I need a good laugh.
Seriously, even wikipedia says you are full of it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medium_machine_gun
Please check out this site before you open up your lousy mouth
Deletehttp://www.pica.army.mil/PicatinnyPublic/products_services/products09.asp
adaptus primus,
ReplyDeleteThat was a good chuckle. Now pull out your copy of "Operational Terms and Graphics" and point to the "medium machine gun" http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/army/docs/fm101-5-1/f545-c5b.htm
This ain't WWII any more, although if you want to go by the historical definition you drug up, then a Mk19 would suffice as a "medium caliber weapon" as it launches 40mm projectiles, except if you refer back to your copy of "Operational Terms and Graphics" you'll see that the Mk19 is considered a "heavy."
Although it would be cool to put something like an M39 on a vehicle, then you would need a sighting system, and some sort of control mechanism (CROWS for example) and it would just get heavy.
Seriously, we don't even bother to put small cannons on Strykers, it's M2/Mk19 only until you get to 105's and TOWs. Why in the world would we put a 20mm Cannon on something designed to support a squad?
But give us your expert opinion, what have you got to lose?