Thanks for the link Paralus!
via Yahoo.com
To see a Company's worth of APCs stopped by a crowd and then to have themselves DISARMED by a rebel commander tells me everything I need to know.
Eastern Ukraine is gone.
Its the new Western border of Russia.
via Yahoo.com
KRAMATORSK/SLAVIANSK, Ukraine (Reuters) - Separatists flew the Russian flag on armored vehicles taken from the Ukrainian army on Wednesday, humiliating a Kiev government operation to recapture eastern towns controlled by pro-Moscow partisans.During the Cold War, Soviet and Soviet Bloc forces that were Airborne, or Naval Infantry were designated as "Guards" units. This indicated that they were the most politically reliable, elite and given the most dangerous or politically sensitive missions.
Six armored personnel carriers were driven into the rebel-held town of Slaviansk to waves and shouts of "Russia! Russia!". It was not immediately clear whether they had been captured by rebels or handed over to them by Ukrainian deserters.
Another 15 armored troop carriers full of paratroops were surrounded and halted by a pro-Russian crowd at a town near an airbase. They were allowed to retreat only after the soldiers handed the firing pins from their rifles to a rebel commander.
The military setback leaves Kiev looking weak on the eve of a peace conference on Thursday, when its foreign minister will meet his Russian, U.S. and European counterparts in Geneva.
Moscow has responded to the overthrow of its ally Ukrainian president Viktor Yanukovich in February by announcing its right to intervene militarily to protect Russian speakers across the former Soviet Union, a new doctrine that has overturned decades of post-Cold War diplomacy.
To see a Company's worth of APCs stopped by a crowd and then to have themselves DISARMED by a rebel commander tells me everything I need to know.
Eastern Ukraine is gone.
Its the new Western border of Russia.
Have seen this before as conscript armies are not best for fighting civil wars ,you do realize that would have to fight their own people and for what some new crook that replaced the old crook ,these guys drove into the city were promptly stopped by local civilians and after some time gave up their weapons ,form what we have seen these guys who 'deserted' reported that they had no food for last 4 days and were just glad that locals feed them
ReplyDeleteAs stated before, the Ukraine needs to make a stand, show of force and then capitulate, they will not fair well in any stand up war Tank/Mech infantry teams vs Tank Motor Rifles and the city and the nation would be left in ruins.
ReplyDeleteThink Kosovo and ethnic cleansing.
Better an intact vassal state than a destroyed and depopulated vassal state being filled with Russians.
Your not going to see a "Ethnic" cleansing. These people are of the same blood and decent, this isnt a Religion push, this is simply Russia destabilizing a already weak government. Not some East Africa Country that's Christian/Muslim citizens are killing off the opposite.
DeleteUkraine can make all the "stand" it wants to, but when your elite units cant do the job, you might want to start preparing for smaller borders.
Want to make a bet?
DeleteCheck out Ukraine before Stalin, see the Armenian population?
See Ukraine after Stalin's plan, where did the Armenian and non Russian's go?
SIBERIA.
Only recently has the population become more balanced BUT, let the Russian's decide to become the dominate ethnic type and away they go with ethnic cleansing.
Jews in the Russian occupied areas of Ukraine have been told to register with the Pro Russian government.
You forget the bigger picture here ,Ukraine will have to federalise and become a neutral nonaligned country. West broke number of promises and agrements withthe Russia in the past about non expanding Nato to the east ,Ukraine was just the tipping point ,to close for comfort for Russians who consider Ukraine their sphere of influence.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.spiegel.de/international/world/nato-s-eastward-expansion-did-the-west-break-its-promise-to-moscow-a-663315.html
And you miss that bigger picture also, if Ukraine will go in to federation type then there will be NO Ukraine in one decade. Or rather half of them will take the "referendum" and join Soviets and the second part will die with absolutely ruined economy that's already is on the brink. This is how you destroy a country in modern days.
DeleteJoin the soviets???
DeleteYeah, is someone act like Soviets, speak like Soviets and look like Soviets then they are soviets, even if they change country name for some new fancy one.
DeleteYes as Shas said, these may call themselves Russian Federation but that is just a new name for Soviets.
ReplyDeleteThese are Soviet Union, always were always will be.
On Ukraine soldiers just does not want to fight for corrupt thieves in the government, who represent only their wallets.
ReplyDeleteActually russian soldiers also does not want to cause any bloodshed by orders of their own corrupt government, no one wants to fight for thieves -- this is why there is no full scale combat on Ukraine happens. Ukrainian soldiers prefer to surrender their weapons and vehicles to THEIR OWN people, rather than participate in thieves government games.
what are you smoking?
Deletedo you really think that soldiers riding into battle are thinking about the politics of a given situation?
really?
Seriously?
do you really think anyone is considering the idea that these orders i've been given come from a 'corrupt' government?
it doesn't work that way. additionally no one 'surrenders' their weapons and vehicles to their own people in the fantasy you're describing. what happened is that you had a unit collapse due to outside pressure and a lack of leadership.
stop with the fantasy.