If you aren't reading Eric's ELP Blog then you're missing out. I might not always agree (he has a hard on for the Stryker and I tend to like the vehicle) but he gives me something to chew on.
To the point. He did an article that gives an alternate view on the number of ships in the US Navy...check this out...
The U.S. military services are at war with each other to battle for shrinking funding. We hear, time and again, that the U.S. Navy does not have enough ships. That the U.S. Navy's goal of 300 ships is at high risk of being out of reach. Things are bad. How will we fight future wars?That's a common sense look at the US Navy's ships that many ignore. I look forward to seeing how one of the Navy guys shoots down ELP's ship count.
What you have been told is not true.
Here is the current breakdown of the 422 ships managed by the Navy (minus Pueblo and Constitution)
Commissioned (USS);
1 Afloat forward staging base (*see USS Ponce)
10 Aircraft carriers
9 Amphibious assault ships
2 Amphibious command ships
10 Amphibious transport docks
54 Attack submarines
14 Ballistic missile submarines
1 Classic frigate (*see USS Constitution)
22 Cruisers
62 Destroyers
12 Dock landing ships
15 Frigates
4 Guided missile submarines
3 Littoral combat ships
13 Mine countermeasures ships
13 Patrol boats
2 Submarine tender
1 Technical research ship (*see USS Pueblo)
Non-Commissioned (USNS);
1 Ammunition ship
1 Cable repair ship
5 Cargo ships (5 of 12)
14 Dry cargo ships
4 Fast combat support ships
4 Fleet ocean tugs
1 High speed transport
2 Hospital ships
2 Instrumentation ships
2 Joint high speed vessels
4 Maritime prepositioning ships
1 Mobile landing platform
5 Ocean surveillance ships
15 Replenishment oilers
4 Salvage ships
7 Survey ships
1 Fuel tanker (1 of 2)
19 Vehicle cargo ships (19 of 56)
Support (MV, RV - or no prefix);
2 Barracks craft
2 Cargo ships (2 of 12)
3 Container ships
2 Dry docks
1 Fast sea frame
11 Large harbor tugs
1 Oceanographic research ship
1 Self Defense Test Ship
2 Torpedo trials craft
6 Tugboats
2 Unclassified miscellaneous
Ready Reserve Force ships (MV, SS, GTS);
2 Aviation logistics support ships
5 Cargo ships (5 of 12)
6 Crane ships
1 Fuel tanker (1 of 2)
37 Vehicle cargo ships (37 of 56)
Totals;
Commissioned: 248, Non-Commissioned: 92, Support: 33, Ready Reserve: 51.
The U.S. Army has another 50
And the USAF has 3 which move around munitions. These are charted but useless without the job they were made for.
The United States Coast Guard? This is a valid count as this organisation has ships siphoned off supporting expeditionary warfare. It has about 244 cutters. Real "Littoral Combat Ships".
The United States has about 721 ships committed to National Security.
Many of these that are not traditional heavy hitters could be weaponized quickly to carry Tomahawk boxes or other similar missile-in-a box solutions.
The United States has a "Navy" scattered among many organisations doing national security work. When the DOD cries about not having enough ships to fight wars, don't believe them. And, lately most of those wars have been of the Operation:USELESS DIRT kind.
The number that jumped out at me was the number of Destroyers.
We're talking about Burke class warships that have been called modern day battleships. If that analysis is correct then we are well served by the Navy we have and the 300 number is not as alarming as many would have us believe.
Does the USN have something like USAF "bone yard" Davis–Monthan Air Force Base? Ships that have been decommissioned, maybe some that are kept around for a few years....then broken up? Or are USN ships broken up fast after they are retired? Or did we stop that practice of storing ships for awhile after the end of the Cold War....seems we could keep a few ships in low status that could be brought up to active in a few months. Still faster than building a new ship from scratch.
ReplyDeleteYes, there are dozens more in the Navy Reserve Fleet, including 5 carriers and a few cruisers
Deletehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy_reserve_fleets
Then there is the National Defense Reserve Fleet, a few hundred cargo and tankers
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Reserve_Fleet
We keep sinking them as torpedo test targets (the entire Spruance-class, the carrier USS America), scrapping them, etc. The Navy bitches about a 300-ship Navy, but it is has been retiring and destroying ships with plenty of life left in them.
Delete24 of the Spruance class had been modernized with Mk41 VLS and could have been serving into the 2020's.
It's not the ship, anyways, the Navy is worried about. It's the expense of manning the ships, Tri-care, pensions, that they worry about. They want 'modern' ships that can be manned with smaller crews like the LCS (which has proven to be a dog in that area).
What would be nice is if there was a common Navy Frigate/Coastie Cutter design that could procured together. Better yet would be one that had modular weapons packages so a Coastie cutter could pull into port, get re-armed and manned by a Navy crew. Yes, I know of the NSC and the offer to turn a version of it into a frigate, but I'm talking about one designed from the bottom up as something that could be re-flagged and re-armed in a pinch.
ReplyDeleteHmmm, maybe we should freeze the LCS program and give them the Coast Guard. They are so underarmed, they'd be better as Cutters and their speed might be useful in chasing smugglers or racing to a disaster.
No need to reman the USCG ships. They are mil spec for the most part - particularly the NSC - and would be used in a conflict if necessary, as they have been in the past.
DeleteI meant more for the weapon's systems. If the Mk41 VLS had certain weapons added to it that the USCG doesn't typically use e.g. Harpoon, Tomahawk, etc., then trained USN personnel could be brought in.
DeleteYou mean something like the Hamilton class? Once they received their FRAM upgrades, they basically full-fledged frigates, with an ASW suite and torpedo launchers, a CIWS, combat electronic systems, and the capability to mount Harpoon missiles.
DeleteYep, but designed from the keel on up to be modular and have more or newer weapons installed.
DeleteIt would also need basic air defense capability like ESSM
Bob Work has been calling this the national fleet for a few years now, that being said I want more Frigates, Submarines, Amphibious ships, and Auxiliaries of every type.
ReplyDeleteAs a keen follower of this site from over the pond, what is the status of a USNS ship? Is it manned by civilian crew like the British Royal Fleet Auxillary ships?
ReplyDeleteYup, civilian mariners.
DeleteCorgo ships, pre positioned munition ships, etc.... all counted as warships? You know better than this pansy gruel puked out to justify further military cuts. It is like saying a barge will work just fine as a replacement for the LST's. Or a oil tanker can work as the new marine LPD. Hell you don't need a AAV we will just borrow a straight ferry to drive the Humvees to the dock.
ReplyDeleteI was intrigued by the lists that a poster above provided...so I looked through them. I remember back in the Deseert Shield/Desert Storm days that we activated a bunch of these "Ready Reserve Fleet" ships. A few problems arose..finding folks that can still run a 450 lbs steam plant ranks number one on the list. Most of the ships out there are steam, and the Navy's last steam plant EVER built is the USS Iwo Jima (LHD 7) a 600 lbs system. Most of the ships out there are on 120 day lay up. Which means exactly what you think, that 120 days after the call is made, those ships "should" be ready to go. Thankfully, that exercise during the early 90's cleared out all of the old Liberty Ships that were still out there.
ReplyDeleteAs far as the LHA-4 ex-Nassau sitting in Beaumont Texas....I can tell you that ship will NEVER get underway again. She is little more than a carcas they pick parts off of for the LHD 1-7 fleet. Her radar was ripped out to be installed on the USS America (LHA 6..the one without a well deck). Her masts were cut off to get under some bridge.
And living close to the James River, I see those ships on occasion and can say that the one reasonm a lot of them are still out there, no matter where they are at anchor, is due to the PCB's and asbestos that was used throughout those ships. Toxic waste dumps floating. The amount of work and cost it would take to clean them of the enviromentally unsound material fars out weighs the benefits of dooing so.
You forgot that one Battleship still registered, The Arizona.
ReplyDeleteOne of the USN's major failings is it's lack of high quality ASW ships, the Burkes have a built in sonar set but they're not as well equipped as ships like the British Type 23 or as well suited to sprint and drift operations. SSNs can stand in but that takes them away from their proper job and they struggle to pick up diesel subs.
ReplyDeleteLCS ships are supposedly meant to fill the void but I remain unconvinced, the hull isn't stable enough. A perfect solution would be to either develop a modern Type 23 variant or to further develop the Legend Class cutters and fit them with some decent sonars.
The same company that makes the new Coast Guard Cutter has (vaporware or real?) warship variant for the Navy to consider. Interesting too. Compare the crew numbers of the new cutter to that of the LCS. As for "warships",Tomahawk Block 4 can go 900 or more miles. Retro-fitting a few legacy 4x Tomahawk deck boxes on anything that is big and floats, isn't unworkable.
ReplyDeleteI presume you mean the land attack tomahawk?
DeleteThe naval attack version was removed from service decades ago.