Thanks Peter for the link!
This is why I appreciate my readers sending me tips.
AND IF I HADN'T SAID IT, I APPRECIATE EACH AND EVERY TIP...EVEN IF I DON'T USE IT!
But back on task. You have got to check out Missile Threat.com. It has the best catalog of current and even past missiles that I've seen on the web.
This is why I appreciate my readers sending me tips.
AND IF I HADN'T SAID IT, I APPRECIATE EACH AND EVERY TIP...EVEN IF I DON'T USE IT!
But back on task. You have got to check out Missile Threat.com. It has the best catalog of current and even past missiles that I've seen on the web.
It also has tons of highly inaccurate info.
ReplyDeleteI'm not disagreeing with you, but I was curious (I haven't really paid too much attention to the site) -- what sort of inaccurate information is posted there?
Deletei'm with you Pat but i won't be as diplomatic as you are. we're dealing with a think tank that is attempting to gather information from open source materials about foreign and domestic missiles.
Deletei'm not saying Robert is full of shit, but he's full of shit. i bet he didn't even visit the site to check it out. just wanted to be contrarian.
Never expected this from you Solomon. That fucking hurt men. I posted here before. I'm not in the habbit of posting bullshit. ..just the Russian section.
DeleteKh-80 Meteorite and Kh-90 GELA have nothing to do with one another. Development of both started at different times and different design bureaus . Not to mention the Kh-90 GELA was just an experimental vehicle. Nor does KH-90 GELA look anything like their sketch. (which is actually of the Kh-80 Meteorite)
Nor was Kh-90 GELA ever under the US DoD label AS-X-19 KOALA that was the Meteorite-A(air launched). With Meteorite-M(sea based) SS-NX-24 SCORPION and land based Meteorite-N (SSCX-5) ( SSCX-5 label is re-used for sub launched Onyx missiles.)
The Kh-101/102 are not 2000-3000 km range missiles. Project requirement was for 5000 km range missile with CEP below 12m. Initial projections for the Kh-101 and Kh-102 when it first flew in 98 by it's designers was reported as 5000 km for conventional version(Kh-101) and 5500 km for the nuclear(Kh-102) with CEP of 6~9 m.
That was however then!
The missiles got put on hold and restarted few years back only. According to an insider. They are now (which version he did not say ) 6000 Km range with even lower CEP.
Said man also gave range figures for domestic Club/Klub missile complex ( in Russia their labeled as Kalibr missile complex.)
Which he was proven to be right on. He gave (3M-54) ) final supersonic stage AshM variant ....range of 375 Km and the land attack variant (3M-14 named Biryuza ) a range of 2600 km.
The range of 2600 km was mentioned by a high navy brass few months later.
Later a Russian admiral Sergei Alekminsky said this about Kalibr missile ranges
"Результаты испытаний положительные, — сообщил командующий флотилией. – Корабль неплохой, с современной начинкой. В настоящее время это самый мощный в вооружении Российского флота корабль. На нем установлен ракетный комплекс, дальность стрельбы которого по надводным целям 375 км, а по береговой цели – до 2600 км. Таких комплексов с мощным ракетным оружием в России больше нет, только на подводных лодках".
Translation : Against surface targets 375 km against land targets 2600 km.
BTW sub launched (3M-14) is 2500 km range ( can't find the link right now) and 3M-54 final supersonic stage variant will also no doubt have lesser range then it's ship or land launched versions.
Speaking of sub launched
http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20140319/1000160934.html
And here's a talk about Kalibr and Onyx(sub launched) engaging targets at 500 km range.
The kalibr missile referred to here is the all the way subsonic 3M-54M1 variant as opposed to the final stage supersonic 3M-54 variant which we know is 375( probably tad less sub launched.)
Continuing on
DeleteThey also have wrong info on NPO mashinostroenie 3M51 ALFA was a Mach 3,0 missile and not Mach 2 and had a range of 300 km and as low as 250 km depending on the guidance and not 200 km.
And it's weight was 1.8 tons (maybe air launched version 1.6 tons)
Anyway that project is long dead.
It's was part of the competition “Alfa” for the replacements of the Moskit missiles. Where NPO mashinostroenie 3M51 Alfa and NPO Novator's 3M-54 Alfa went head to head.
NPO Mashinostroenie 3M51 Alfa was first favoured because it was unified missiles able to attack land and surface targets. Where the NPO Novator's 3M-54 ALFA was split in two ... a ship attack variant the 3M-54 Alfa and the land attack variant 3M-14 Biryuza ( also known as ASM-MS AFM-L which western sources due to confusion labeled NPO mashinostroenie 3M51 ALFA as such)
NPO Mashinostroenie 3M51 Alfa ran into engine troubles. NPO Novator's added another missiles to their missile complex. The 3M-54M1 and most importantly the 91R (91R-1)and 91RТ-02 (91R-2) (which were previously part of the planned Vodopad-2 system.
NPO Novator ended up winning.
In early 2000 NPO Mashinostroenie tried to find foreign costumers for their 3M51 Alfa missile now labelled as Yakhont-M. But since said costumer would have to have had to finance further development of 3M51 Alfa/Yakhont-M. There were no offers.
anyway their ballistic missile section is also highly inaccurate.
all you're doing is pitting one open source against another after declaring the one you favor superior. did you notice anything? the website that you favor doesn't cite sources for their information. the one i listed does.
Deletethe blanket statement that missilethreat.com is inaccurate is annoying at best. you can't do that in the fuzzy world of information that we live in. or better stated disinformation.
The two links I gave above quote Russian admiral Sergei Alekminsky and the oother Russian Navy Commander Admiral Viktor Chirkov.
DeleteRobert, i'm not trying to be a bitch on this, but i don't believe US or allied generals anymore. why would i believe a couple Russian ones? additionally when i talk about using open source materials to determine intent and motivation its with the idea that a huge portion of the material we're reading is going to be pure propaganda.
Deletei use the issue with Chinese Destroyers being able to detect the F-35 as an example. for them to leak that info indicates something. they're either confident of their abilities and have knowledge that the program will continue despite the critics...or they're scared shitless, want to increase sales of the ship or some other factor.
thats what i'm getting to. when dealing with something like missile range capability etc...even the pros with full visibility are guessing. for us that are using open source we can only make bests guesses. thats why i don't think you should dismiss this website out of hand the way that you did.
I understand that. But that site has lot wrong and needs to be updated. And their reasoning for the Kh-101 and kh-201 range is amateurish flawed. Why ?
DeleteThey are much newer missiles with bigger dimensions and weigh a ton more then old Kh-55. So no way in hell would they still have same range ballpark as the old kh-55 series.
And Commanders lying about domestic specs for Kalibr or Onyx ? Yeah, I grant you that if it was in the Soviet days they would be facing a firing squad for disclosing such info. But it isn't the Soviet days anymore Russia is much more relax talking about domestic specs of their weapons vs the exported ones. Anyway, both missile would obviosly have bigger range compared to their export variants. which would be handicapped because they are export products and MTCR treaty.
Also a vid about Onyx
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=clWZCNaZpeE#t=0
Starting from 0:38
The NPO Mashinostroenie personal says: At height of low altitude(Lo-Lo) range no less then 340 Km.. (Which would pretty much indicate at Hi-Lo flight profile the range would be in 500 km ball park.)
Anyway enough about that. Here some news
http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20131224/986083837.html
Russia has increased range of their 122 mm MLRS rockets from 40 km to 100 km for their Tornado-G MLRS system.
There was also talk of range increasing of 90-100 to 200 kim of their 300 mm MLRS rockets two years back.
http://ria.ru/arms_mm/20121008/769372259.html
But so far there is no word or indication that they have increased their range.
And now regarding the navy. This is either the new destroyer they ended up choosing or one of the proposed veriants of the new destroyers that didn't make the cut.
http://sa.uploads.ru/EF1iM.png
pic taken from this vid
http://tvzvezda.ru/news/forces/content/201404241705-tlxs.htm
www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUPKQi4Nbc0&feature=youtube_gdata_player
ReplyDeleteThe Chinese and Russians often have white paint on the tyre walls for parade vehicles. I think the French do as well on occasion. I know militarism isn't fashionable, but I like a good parade with nice clean shiny green vehicles and shiny fittings and smart soldiers. Then again I don't think nationalism is a bad thing either. If we all put our efforts into making our countries great then we would be too busy to fight anyway. :)
DeleteSorry that ended up in the wrong place. Sorry. :(
DeleteNow why are those tires whitewalled ? Is that the Studebaker of trucks with those tires then ?
ReplyDeleteThe previous HIMARS post and this one.......Ukraine still has those BM-30 Smerch missiles as functional. Wonder how and if they pit those missiles against the russians with the same inventory.
ReplyDelete