The US fifth-generation F-35 stealth fighter can be detected by the radar system installed aboard the People's Liberation Army Navy's new Type 052D destroyers, according to the Moscow-based Voice of Russia, citing military experts.If this is based off the AEGIS radar and if this report is true then the USAF is going to have a serious problem operating in the Pacific.
Vladimir Evseev, director of the Moscow-based Center for Social and Political Studies, told the Russian broadcaster that details of China's radar project, including the amount spent on its development, remain unknown, however it is a great leap forward in regards to the nation's military modernization program.
China has encountered a lot of obstacles in its attempts to develop its own radar system, but it has managed to overcome these issues with Russian help, Voice of Russia said, citing Konstantin Sivkov, director of the Russian Academy for Geopolitical Issues.
Sivkov said that the most crucial part of China's success is that the PLA Navy finally knows how to handle active electronically scanned array radar systems. With this technology, Chinese destroyers are able to track and shoot down F-35 fighters from a distance of 350 kilometers.
Meanwhile, Pavel Zolotaryov, deputy head of Institute for USA and Canada Studies of the Russian Academy of Sciences, said that the Chinese warship not only has the ability to locate the US stealth fighter but can also deploy countermeasures against the fighter's electronic interference capability.
The new system will gradually increase the combat capability of the PLA Navy in Western Pacific region, Voice of Russia said.
Lack of electronic warfare aircraft in their future plans points to a glaring oversight.
They aren't planning for worse case scenarios and it could bite them.
Yes, I saw that and it's big. It came just after this was widely published --
ReplyDeleteJapan’s F-35s Could Give It A Big Advantage Over China
Japan, guided by fiery nationalist Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, has committed to purchasing 42 F-35As with the possibility of ordering more in the future.
Although the F-35 has had a controversial run in the U.S. due to problems with design and manufacturing and a history of going over budget, Japan sees the fifth-generation fighter as a key deterrent against the rising militancy of China.
...
That article was based on a claim in Canada's Kanwa Asian Defense that F-35s could strike the Liaoning [carrier] with hard-to-intercept joint strike missiles from a safe distance of 290km. The F-35 should also be able to locate and engage China's main aircraft, the J-15, before the F-35 is even detected.(end report)
Now we're talking ID at 350 kilometers from a destroyer, plus Russia is selling S-400 AD to China, good out to 400 km. China also has AESA radar with EW capability on its J-10, J-16 and J-20 fighters, as well as strike missiles.
but what has me shaking my head is that this all leads back to the US Navy. i really would pay good money to know what their classified reports say about stealth and detecting it.
Deletei've noticed something else.
the US Navy is hardly worried about the Chinese stealth jets. despite their appearance and assumed powerhouse abilities the USN is still convinced that the Super Hornet is more than capable of dealing with them.
what are they basing all this on and why won't they let us have a peek?
Solomon
Delete> i really would pay good money to know what their classified reports say about stealth and detecting it.
Yes, the AEGIS can detect F-22 at a sufficient range, this information come not from the US Navy, but from Asian AEGIS operators who tested their radars against visiting USAF F-22.
Now the question is, can the Chinese radar do the same.
Since Chinese far surpass Americans in math and engineering, I have no doubt about China's radar capabilities.
DeleteThis is a Propganda or a fear inspiring piece. The Chinese Electronics industry...commercial and military isnt that developed to make radars and equipment like that, not this early. Even the Russians are encountering problems with their AESA efforts across the board. Thats why they underwent this huge but deliberately kept quiet partnership with the Israelis for commercial (Read Dual Use) technology. Inviting Israeli student,s professors and vice versa to their universities and production faclities etc.
DeleteAnd if you dont belive that, come to India and i'll show you Russian engineers working on Elbit Systems hardware for an Indian company. We didnt realize how co-opertaing Israelies are in this Joint Projects till we ordered the Phalcon Awacs. An Israeli Radar based on the Ilyushin platform with systems integration now being done in India. Even the Russians uped their Electronic Co-operation with Israel following that Radar Integration. They have even worked with the French for the Catharine Tank Thermal Sight. Most Russian aircraft being built/assembled at HAL in India have french/israeli avionics software and devices. If you want to contain the chinese from getting advanced electronic equipment and radars, dont put sanctions on Russia, let Israel be yout target.......lol.
DeleteI fail to see how the development of AESA radars will allow China to engage F-35s. I'm not a fan of the F-35, but this sounds more like BS than anything else. AESA refers to how a radar broadcasts it's signals, but on the same basic frequencies as previous radars. Now, if Chinese vessels are carrying LF or VLF radar systems this would be a problem for the F-35.
ReplyDeletename one foe the F-22 hasn't been tested against in the US arsenal. a real quick why haven't they done it is to test the F-22 against the Burke Class Destroyer. this article might very well be full of shit but like i noted in my response to Don, somethign has the US Navy convinced that they don't have to worry about upcoming Chinese stealth aircraft...and thats with the knowledge that they've stolen F-35 tech.
Deleteso why aren't they worried and what do they know that we don't? if stealth is all its cracked up to be then a wargame with F-35's versus US aegis destroyers would be a no brainer.
from Popular Science--
DeleteBecause AESA radars can perform well in multiple wavelength bands, they allow greater dwell time on a target, an expanded envelope to track a wider area, more resistance to jamming, and greater resolution at range, so a track of even stealthy planes like the new F-35 would show up sooner. Once the [China] J-10B enters service, its AESA radar and other electronic enhancements would give it a leg up over Taiwanese F-16s and Vietnamese Su-30s as well as concern US operators. As a US Navy fighter pilot put it, “This is bad news for us.”
http://www.popsci.com/blog-network/eastern-arsenal/congratulations-it%E2%80%99s-aesa-radar
AvWeek, 2012:
Ground-based radars have been undergoing a technological revolution in recent years. Technologies such as electronically scanned antennae, ultra-fast powerful processors and advanced algorithms, originally developed for strategic phased-array radars and miniaturized to fit stealth fighters, are now ready for deployment with land forces.
The benefits of active, electronically scanned arrays (AESA) are common to air and naval applications, and those capabilities are as important for land applications as they are for fighter aircraft and missile defense. Equally critical is the robust, solid-state technology that eliminates all moving parts and most single-point vulnerabilities associated with radars—thus extending the radar life cycle to decades, matching the platform's service life.
http://aviationweek.com/awin/aesa-driving-new-applications-ground-radars
Navy's made it clear it's betting on EW not stealth, and the facts bear them out. But the 35 is being sold on stealth since it lacks at everything else except STOVL, its original raison d'être.
ReplyDeleteApr 17, 2014
JSF Tests against Russian, Chinese Air Defenses
Six Air Force F-35A Joint Strike Fighter aircraft are currently at Edwards Air Force Base, Calif., to test the aircraft's stealth and sensor technologies against representations of Russian, Iranian and Chinese air-defenses.
"The surface threat is a tough problem because it is a system of systems and the emerging threats that we have right now can see you hundreds of miles away. If the missile is big enough it can shoot you from hundreds of miles away," said Thomas Lawhead, operations lead for JSF integration office. "If you have stealth as you go in all those ranges shrink down. Hopefully they shrink down enough to where you can get in and launch a weapon without being seen."
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2014/04/17/jsf-tests-against-russian-chinese-air-defenses.html
Hope doesn't cut it. Prayer might work, though. heh
the circle is closing the bug will catch
ReplyDeleteA Marine jet just crashed in the Arizona desert. They say it's a Harrier.
ReplyDeleteWould someone who know more about jets than I do (which is little) pls look at the photos particularly the tail and see if it doesn't look more like a 35 twin tail and horizontal stabilizer (?) than a Harrier.
They've apparently taken the photos down -- they were here.
http://www.abc15.com/news/region-central-southern-az/other/report-marine-aircraft-crashes-south-of-valley
here's an image
Deletehttp://ksaz.images.worldnow.com/images/3694154_G.jpg
Looks like a Harrier to me, just look at the inlet and cockpit. Any news of the pilot?
DeleteThanks. Pilot OK, just a lacerated nose.
DeleteDefinitely a Harrier, based on the inlet, and one of the exhaust vanes.
DeleteWhat I'm wondering is what are the chances are of enemies we are more likely to fight in the near future getting these technologies. If Iran or North Korea got them it could turn the simplest of foes into tough nuts to crack.
ReplyDeleteThe USAF mentioned something a while ago about needing hypersonic missiles to defeat the advanced Russian SAMs that were coming out. I hope the Navy gets on board with that and makes an anti-ship flavor of the missile as well. However, right now the Navy seems to think that the Growler/Super Hornet team can defeat anything and have invested in UAVs to boot. The USAF has all of its funding locked up in stealth jets that have proven difficult if not expensive to upgrade and limited in scope with what they can actually accomplish. It would be almost sad to watch if it weren't for the fact that this is trap of their own making.
Iran and North Korea are already "tough nuts to crack" so not to worry.
DeleteIran won't be attacked, that would put the US Fifth Fleet and the 40,000 US troops stationed around the Gulf (and some dependents) at risk. Iran has no interest in attacking the US because it would suffer too many losses and besides it is prevailing over the US in the area.
North Korea has nukes, and it mainly serves as a reason to base US aircraft one air-hour from Beijing. So the fire will be kept stoked by both sides, but no war.
Basically I don't subscribe to the "dangerous world" position. Have a defense, sure, but keep it in perspective.
the danger isn't to our fast movers. we're talking about really the type of warfare that will involve the most advanced of our ISR and SEAD systems. the real danger in my mind is the spread of smaller, more capable MANPADS and radar systems like the SAAB Giraffe that are small enough to be operated by some of the well funded terrorist groups like Hezbollah.
Deletei foresee a time when rotary winged aviation gets several rude surprises that causes a surprising number of allied troop deaths before we wake up to the reality of the issue.
think Iraq III except in Africa or another Middle East country (talking about the time when the terrorist locked in on the idea of shooting down our helicopters with RPGs and MANPADS)
Hyper Missiles will only be a reality if and when SCRAM Jets become paractically, commercially and logistically feasible. As of right now, even ramjet propelled missiles are becomming so expensive that people are talking about research into directed energy and electro magnetic weapons. The French have a pretty decent prototype of a Scramjet engine currently undergoing testing. But only testing. It has been in the prototype stage for a while now.
DeleteThe above comments about a possible exsrcise between F-22 vs an Aegis equipped ship made me wonder.
ReplyDeleteWhat if they run an exercise with Patriot PAC-2 and 3 acting like the refference threat for S-300/400 batteries, and F-15C with AN/APG-63V3 act like SU-35s deffending an area witch F-35s have to penetrate.
With the patriot batteries being well camouflaged in woodland terrain.
i think Army Air Defense Artillery would be all over it. i think the USAF would probably refuse the challenge without a second thought.
Deleteairpower advocates have painted themselves into a pretty weird corner. the Think Tanks along with the USAF have pushed for an aviation centric defense posture....and they did it early based on the F-35 being years ahead of whatever the enemy could come up with. remember this plane is suppose to be flying till 2050! now that we see the SU-27/30/33/35 along with the PAK-FA and the J-20....coupled with its lack of improved performance when tested against current fighters and we have a flawed concept.
yeah. ADA would love it. USAF wouldn't.
Last night I put some videos in the wrong topic. I was just tired and sleepy. They show how with legacy airplanes and Jsow and Malds you can saturate and destroy any air defence with impunity. In terms of cost effectiveness that should be a good reason to cancel the idea of an overall stealth air force . But if that overall stealth air force can be detected for the enemy that should convince even the most stupid planner. I think is a real issue of corruption that should be investigated.
ReplyDeletewww.youtube.com/watch?v=LvHlW1h_0XQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Haj-dZLTSa4&feature=youtube_gdata_player
www.youtube.com/watch?v=0acJ3xyhaJo&feature=youtube_gdata_player
www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3I4i1iDND4&feature=youtube_gdata_player
ReplyDeletewww.youtube.com/watch?v=mpPudL-Ztdg&feature=youtube_gdata_player
www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSVziY1Zwn8&sns=em
www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSJDUABpXzI&feature=youtube_gdata_player
http://mil-embedded.com/news/raytheon-emp-missile-tested-by-boeing-usaf-research-lab/
ReplyDeletewww.youtube.com/watch?v=HFKP0wnd2k4&feature=youtube_gdata_player
ReplyDeleteMaybe thats why the navy is investing on more EA-18 growler
ReplyDeleteI think Superrhinoceront is onto something in pointing this out: munitions is a better avenue for development
ReplyDeleteThe F35 platform has been in the pipeline since the late 80's with JAST and CALF and is just now coming into production albeit it a flawed process. And the main selling point, Stealth, isn't at all a sure thing. To develop a program for 30 frickin years only to have the potential of its technological advantage become irrelevant before it is even fielded AND have it bankrupt the DoD as the services mortgage their future is unsustainable. THAT is the scary thing about the 'no alternative' crowd refuses to acknowledge.
It is far easier, cheaper and faster to develop munitions that can by carried by either legacy fighters or even new build, conventional fighters is the way forward for US military, We cannot afford to develop 30 year programs to only have its capabilities wiped out due to a technological innovation by our enemy.
It would be better to develop new munitions or even modular ones that can be adapted/improved, etc. If an enemy develops a countermeasure, the entire force isn't made irrelevant until a new platform is developed.
Is not just about the ammunition, it's also about the flight performance, balanced survivability, flexibility, electronic countermeasures and warfare and cost maintenance. Boeing has a better understanding of those requirements, it seem the USNAVY too. The USAF and the Marines have a different idea believing the F-35 is undetectable. Korea is making the same mistake.
ReplyDeletewww.youtube.com/watch?v=Kn6nx_GGERQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player
www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NPXvZmzkcY&feature=youtube_gdata_player
www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnVHEmROaMM&feature=youtube_gdata_player
ReplyDeletewww.youtube.com/watch?v=wxrZ7jWT_GY&feature=youtube_gdata_player
ReplyDeletehttp://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David's_Sling
ReplyDeleteThe SMAR-L radar can detect stealth missiles (0,001 m²) at a range of 65 km.
ReplyDeletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMART-L
Many modern warships use this radar system but no US ship - NIH!