Consider this.
Instead of being a lead story on the nightly news, we have the above video being turned into a gif and played on Jalopnik...a car website.
Ukraine is lost.
The nation is failed and the only thing left to do is to prevent the contagion from spreading. The fact that the Obama Administration hasn't admitted as much is par for the course. The fact that Putin pulled back his troops from the borders lets us all in on the secret.
The Russian mission has been accomplished.
If we can agree on that then only one burning question remains. If we failed to act aggressively toward Russia (and I don't think Ukraine was worth going to war over...but I'm no policy maker) when they invaded/destabilized a sovereign country then what happens when China seizes disputed territory?
If the clear eyed, realistic answer is nothing, then we've already lost. Online Twitter protests will not work. Pathetic sanctions on government officials will be laughable. And if the ties between Europe and Russia were too intense to risk then what about the ties between China and the rest of the world?
We have gotten into bed with a communist country and as a result have defeated ourselves. Unless we unwind economically from China then we can basically shutter our armed forces. They won't be useful in the coming conflict.
This is what happens when the truely powerfull draw lines in the sand without considering the local populace. Most of the Arab world was drawn adhoc, as were many african nations. Solomon, my good man....this is nothing but equilibrium. Call is russian expansion or ukrainian internal collapse or EU non-reactionism.....this happened. And it will happen if not now then tomorrow to all countries which were improperly created or created due to Real Politik rather than Real People, if you get my drift. Israel-Palestine, India-Pakistan, China-Insert Country Here, Falklands, all those african tribal wars tooo frequent to even count etc. And these type of countries are always created as a last resort where the local populace is so bloody disillisioned with colonial/foreign masters and authority that they accept even an Improper country with huge potential future problems to their current state. No fault to them, they were desperate. But for many countries out there, they have to come to terms with the fact that a significant change of borders will happen eventually. Either they will happen organically or someone from outside will play mischief.
ReplyDeleteWhat happened Eu and US cooked up a coup that had no legitimacy outside west ukraine. Moscow took the oprotunity to sieze Krimea that is in any case populated mostly by Russians ,while east ukraine rebels are just a side show. Interestingly labeled terrorists and cracked down with full military power, while the same actions made by people now in power were freedom loving demonstrations.
ReplyDeletei keep hearing that but i have yet to see the evidence that shows thats what happened.
Deleteis this rumor or fact? if its fact then show me where i can get the info!
You know you had US and EU politicians in Kiev prior and post maidan from what we can tell current PM and President were selected and groomed well in advance of overthrow . And you know sustaining 10K demonstrants at maidan for months takes hard cash not just wishful thinking. Russians are right to be vary or Western NGOs as these are now commonly used for political destabilisation.
Deletehttp://www.darkmoon.me/2014/who-are-the-puppet-masters-by-neil-clark/
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-05-05/washington-intends-russia%E2%80%99s-demise-warns-paul-craig-roberts
no. i'm talking about mainstream news sites that have run with this version of events. i can google "US influenced events in Ukraine" and get hundreds of people that have the theory. i want solid proof of this. its ok if it doesn't exist and its just speculation or rumors but i want solid facts before i buy into that line of thinking.
DeleteIn any case where is the proof of the opposite ,we now know thanks to the Fins that US lied big time about Russian personel being in East ukraine. http://www.suomensotilas.fi/en/artikkelit/easter-bunnies-are-hobbyist-and-reservists , satelite picts leaked of the Russian troop concentrations on ukrainian border were proven to be 2 years old. ,and the list goes on . Lies from Nato or Pentagon have been taken as true and desiminnated by media without a second look.
Deletehttp://www.counterpunch.org/2014/04/15/is-putin-being-lured-into-a-trap/
where is the proof of the opposite? so if someone accuses me of being gay, i have to prove that i'm not? thats craziness! if someone accuses me of rape i have to prove that i didn't? if i'm accused of murder i have to prove that i'm not?
Deleteeven though in all of those scenarios above there is no evidence that i am or did anything that i'm being accused of?
why don't you blame the US for kidnapping the Nigerian girls? i can't prove that the US didn't. NO even better! the UK kidnapped those school girls because so many Brits go to Nigeria for sex vacations!
you're not being serious, but i'm still waiting for evidence.
I just said it beyond me to prove anything but you have to consider that media reports intel you and i have is totaly one sided and in most cases from PR office straight to the press.
DeleteAs mentioned has been proven false both 'russian specnaz gru folks' in East ukraine story and 2 year old satelite photos of russian buildup,and in both cases band kept marching on with their version. Reporters on the ground coudn't find any buildup ,in relations to maidan shooting German Spiegel (one of the most trusted news outlets in europe) made a long article on Majdan shooting how people were also shoot in the back from Hotel Ukraina (Oposition HQ) ,bullet holes in the trees could clearly show direction of the shots (interesting those trees have now been cut down)(they also brodcasted a taped radio traffic of the Goverment snipers and their HQ)
How can the Russians prove that east Ukrainian rebels have nothing to do with them.?
It sort off like how could Iraq prove they had no WMD ! Its imposible
I see Russians still suck at PR game ,i would have taught they learned that lessen with Georgia where they lost a PR war. Even tough Georgia started it all. Throwing bags off cash at US PR firms and lobyists would be a wise move.
About those Little Green Men, Ex-Paki President and now Treason Undertrial Parvez Musharraf once said "One Mans Terrorist is another Man's freedom Fighter". With people, comes human nature, with human nature, comes exploitation.....organic or foreign. Self created, or Imported. And yes, proof or no proof, a great game of Real Politik was played by both the western world and Russia here without considering Ukrainian interests. Consider this- The Russians have been bitching about their Sevestapol and Black Sea Navy since 1991 and have been realy worried by what would happen to it in case of an adverse situation. Their brain trusts have racked out scenarion after scenario of ways to get it back. Come 2014, case rested. As far as the western world is concerned, Half a Ukraine is better than None. Especialyl if they can convince Brit, French and German taxpayers to fork out more for the new Russkie offensive. I am sure even US indistrialists are going.........Ohhh thank god more Govt. Orders. And in betwen, the people who both sides dont give 2 shits about. Do you really think that even within the seperatists, whatever organic leadership that has come up will be able to survive in the future without towing the Putin Line ?...i am just waitng for the next wave of assasinations and disappearances and Unfortunate Accidents.
Delete"Ukraine is lost." Completely agree--we are letting eastern Europe "go." And Obama's defunding of the missile shield was the first indication. Telling Putin he would have "more flexibility" after his re-election was another tell.
ReplyDeleteIn all of this I keep seeing European accountability. Obama was the US President Europe wanted. A man for the "global citizen." This is in their backyard and threatens them. We have funded Western Europe's defense for ~70 years now allowing them to work 30 hour weeks and focus on social programs. To add insult to injury they thumb their noses at us and tell us we should be more like them!
It's time for Europe to pick a direction. It's time for the European people to "pay their fair share" and put what economic force the EU has behind the effort. And if their current leadership can't stand up to Putin, then they need to elect effective leadership that will. Maybe it's time European elections consist of more than anti-American rhetoric?
In short: They made their bed. Everyone who advocated for our limp-wristed President is getting what he deserves!
I FORGOT ABOUT THE 'WAIT TILL AFTER THE ELECTION AND I'LL HAVE MORE FLEXIBILITY' line Obama threw at Putin. brilliant!
DeleteEurope HAS picked a direction. Germany, with its lethargic economy dependent with 6,200 German businesses in Russia and over 300,000 German jobs depending on two-way trade, won't stand for any meaningful sanctions on Russia. France will continue with its $1.66 billion contract to sell two Mistral-class helicopter carriers to Russia. Europe needs Russia's natural gas to power its economies, etc.
DeleteSo Americans telling Europeans what they need to do is a meaningless exercise.
And Europeans moaning for support under NATO is equally meaningless.
DeleteWhy help a people that won't help themselves?
This is less about telling Europe what to do and more about pointing out the inevitable while drawing a box around it. The decisions being made now will have lasting consequences.
Where is the moaning for support under NATO?
Deletehttp://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/24/world/europe/eastern-europe-frets-about-natos-ability-to-curb-russia.html?_r=0
Delete"What countries like the Baltic States, Poland and Romania need are “boots on the ground, a presence in the region,” Mr. Ilves said, as well as air defenses, not just air policing."
Aside from the requests for build-up, do you seriously think there wouldn't be a 3:00AM call to the White House 30 seconds after this goes hot outside of Ukraine? And it inevitably will if the Russians aren't deterred.
If you remember there was some note on Wiki leaks about analyse from US ambassador William Burns in Moscow what will happen if NATO will try to integrate Ukraine in to the Pact. That's note is from 2008 and it's name is: “Nyet, Means Nyet: Russia’s NATO Engagement’s Red Line.” I recommend that you lands read that stuff.
ReplyDeleteShas is correct. It was Obama who destabilized Ukraine with his fascist-aided coup d'etat in Kyev. Ukraine was already a patched-together country, with different ethnic peoples and different languages west and east, and Obama drove the nail in it.
ReplyDeleteThe US/NATO threats to drive Russia out of its only warm-water naval port couldn't be dismissed, and neither could the threats of Kyev fascists to restrict the ethnic Russian in eastern Ukraine who naturally want no part of the US-installed Kyev junta. Crimea has left Ukraine, and now Donetsk and Lugansk have said 'nyet' to this US mistake, another in a long line of foreign policy mistakes by Washington.
No Don you are mistaken in couple of things. First not US or NATO was behind this but EU that frak things up. Ukraine entering in to EU zone hit Russians as violation of there sphere of influence. And they respond as always with bloodshed and force.
DeleteThere is and never was any fascist coup in Kiev, that's old trick of Soviets times that everybody are fascist and that is excuse for action. Even that ultra nationalist group of Right Sector was and still small and without any power, but they are a scapegoat for Russian propaganda.
Again no fascist involved, no ethic cleansing ( that's rather Russians specialty ) no US installed junta. That's just a fraking propaganda at full speed of absurd.
It's more simple, everything was fine to the moment people of Ukraine had enough of former President and his bad of thieves. The just cross the line in corruption department even for, well pretty corrupt Ukraine. People revolt, pro-Russian president run... there is a simple temporary gov that in 99% is the same as the old one, and they try to restore order. The EU want to go there and support Ukraine, those people want to join it. But that's is the trigger that put in to action Russian plan. Everything was fine before that but in the moment Russians smell that they may lost Ukraine from theirs control they start to act. Spec ops are go, Provocateurs are go, all those pro Russian groups in Ukraine are go... and the Ukraine is in big shit. It's country without any close allies, no support, easy pray for Russians.
That was a mistake of EU not US.
Definitely not NATO. But do you think that captured "fuck the EU" snippet was just some random aside? Why did the US pump $5bn over 20 years into Ukraine, to help them build democratic institutions? Really? What if the tables had been turned and Russia had pumped say $10 billion into Mexico? Shadowy NGOs and visits to Kiev by CIA directors? And none of this is provocative? What happened when the Wall came down did you guys just dump all the intel and books on Russia (Soviet) in the trash? Outside of Europe America appears to be like a petulant child who thinks rules apply to others not them. Russia must do this, must do that. Russia has nuclear weapons, a large army, and unless they are about to set fire to the White House they need treating with a bit of respect. First rule of warfare is don't underestimate the enemy. They may have been waiting for a pretext to annex Crimea, but politically do you think they would have gone after the Olympics if they didn't have a reason. It speaks volumes to me that in era where Americans don't really act like Americans, where good Americans who hold the Constitution dear are sadly in the minority, that the US government has no understanding that being Russian is important to many Russians. That their culture and religion count in a way that reforming socialist like Obama don't understand because they don't like their own culture. I think that a true American White House would see the lines on maps cause trouble, would see that the East f Ukraine would probably be happier separated from the West of Ukraine, and lastly would remember 1776 and would start trying to be a colonial power.
DeleteAs for the EU well the two drivers in the EU for getting things done are France and Germany. The former does politics and security and the latter money. The UK's role is just to express minor concern so it seems like it is a check and balance on policy and then to green light what the two Continental powers want. What we see in the Ukraine is Germany trying to play politics and security for its own economic ends and doing an awful job.
And finally as I have said before the US for all its protesting likes a weak Europe. It likes that Germany has to turn to them. It likes playing France off against the UK. It likes saying that the UK is better in the EU than out because it keeps the UK trying to serve two masters. In a minor way it also helps keep Canada looking south too; it is easy to see that the US has gone out of its way to keep the White Commonwealth fractured.
My country right or wrong is something I understand. But please have the balls to admit when it is wrong.
who were the shadowy NGO's? who were the CIA agents you claim? just a real deal story please!
Deletewhat you're doing is spreading rumor mixed with a little America bashing, adding it to a mixed up belief that the US is responsible for everything that happens in the world and you come up with this insane story.
have the balls to admit when i'm wrong? sure can, its just this time i ain't and your US bashing is becoming more than a little tiresome.
THE EU FUCKED UP UKRAINE. Pathetic ass UK is a non-player on the issue even though they have more at stake.
FIX YOUR OWN FUCKING HOUSE BEFORE YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT THE PAINT ON MINE!
It seems so to the west that fascists are a bad joke but you have nazis parading in Kiev not Donetsk or Krimea
Deletehttp://u-96.livejournal.com/3408146.html
Meanwhile Alexander the bogeyman west labeled as 'special forces colonel from Chechnia' LOL is just getting all the pussy he can while the fun lasts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SaUNFlvBvw
1. Victoria Nuland, US State Dept
DeleteNuland has tough time justifying US involvement in Ukraine
During a two hour House Foreign Affairs Committee hearing, the US Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland shared her assessment of the US role in Ukraine's crisis and the upcoming presidential election. But instantaneously she came under fire from Dana Rohrabacher, a republican congressman from California. “We did have legitimate election before, and the legitimate president was removed after we had major street violence. There were pictures of people running around that we were told were neo-Nazis,” Rohrabacher challenged Nuland. Nuland herself claimedin December that the US had spent $5 billion since the 1990s on “democratization” programs in Ukraine.
2. fascists
The far right has also achieved a major breakthrough in the government. Some commentators have warned that their level of representation in the new Ukrainian government is unparalleled in Europe. The xenophobic Svoboda party controls the posts of deputy prime minister, ministers of defence, ecology, agriculture and the prosecutor general's office. Andriy Parubiy, one of the founders of the Social-National Party of Ukraine and a former leader of its paramilitary youth organisation, who later joined the moderate Batkivshchyna party and efficiently commanded self-defence forces in Maidan, is now
image -- before coup
Victoria Nuland, Yarsenyi Yatsenyuk, Vitali Klitschko, and Oleh Tyahnybok.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-O1A1CNV4xPU/Ux6Pubbc0zI/AAAAAAAAAzk/QIJNHxaiCGI/s1600/280214nuland.jpg
Oleh Tyahnybok (Svoboda Party) making Nazi salute
http://www.moonofalabama.org/images4/svoboda.jpg
3. The European Parliament
... Is concerned about the rising nationalistic sentiment in Ukraine, expressed in support for the Svoboda Party, which, as a result, is one of the two new parties to enter the Verkhovna Rada; recalls that racist, anti-Semitic and xenophobic views go against the EU's fundamental values and principles and therefore appeals to pro-democratic parties in the Verkhovna Rada not to associate with, endorse or form coalitions with this party
4. The US-supported NGO of "PM" Yarsenyi Yatsenyuk
Open Ukraine -- Arseniy Yatsenyuk Foundation
http://openukraine.org/en/about/partners
The tipping point for me was when the then opposition renegaded on the February deal,
DeleteThe situation on the 21st was,
http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/1.575587
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/21/ukraine-president-says-deal-has-been-reached-opposition-bloodshed
http://news.sky.com/story/1215040/ukraine-opposition-signs-deal-with-president
And a few days later we have,
http://osnetdaily.com/2014/02/breaking-ukraine-downfall-president-flees-the-scence-as-truce-deal-collapses/
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/22/ukraine-crisis-uncertainty-after-yanukovych-signs-deal-live-updates
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10659746/Ukraine-revolution-live.html
And the first thing they do is go after the 2012 language law. Now Russian is more widely spoken in the Ukraine than Ukrainian and so perhaps doesn't need legal protection. But in a time of national crisis why is such legislation even on the table for discussion? It would be like a US President fighting WW3 dropping everything to bring in laws to give say Spanish the same status French has in Canada. It is on the table because it is cheap provocative move against the Kremlin. One of the reasons crisises are dangerous is that bring out the extremists and in fear the uneducated and ill informed listen to them.
Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs at the United States Department of State Victoria Nuland's infamous February phone call with Geoffrey Pyatt, US Ambassador to Ukraine
DeleteTranscript of leaked Nuland-Pyatt call -- portion:
Nuland: OK. He's now gotten both Serry and [UN Secretary General] Ban Ki-moon to agree that Serry could come in Monday or Tuesday. So that would be great, I think, to help glue this thing and to have the UN help glue it and, you know, Fuck the EU.
Pyatt: Yeah. I guess... in terms of him not going into the government, just let him stay out and do his political homework and stuff. I'm just thinking in terms of sort of the process moving ahead we want to keep the moderate democrats together. The problem is going to be Tyahnybok [Oleh Tyahnybok, the other opposition leader] and his guys and I'm sure that's part of what [President Viktor] Yanukovych is calculating on all this.
Nuland: [Breaks in] I think Yats is the guy who's got the economic experience, the governing experience. He's the... what he needs is Klitsch and Tyahnybok on the outside. He needs to be talking to them four times a week, you know. I just think Klitsch going in... he's going to be at that level working for Yatseniuk, it's just not going to work.
Pyatt: Yeah, no, I think that's right. OK. Good. Do you want us to set up a call with him as the next step?
Nuland: My understanding from that call - but you tell me - was that the big three were going into their own meeting and that Yats was going to offer in that context a... three-plus-one conversation or three-plus-two with you. Is that not how you understood it?
Feb 6
State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki acknowledged that the recording was authentic and said Nuland had apologized to E.U. officials.
photo
Victoria Nuland the Trojan Horse lady…cakes and all.
http://www.veteranstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Nuland_with_food_crop-300x320.jpg
This ain't Chicago and a community organizer is way out of their depth here.
ReplyDeleteRussia will defend to the death and with all it's military assets up to and including WMD's the warm water port in Ukraine and Crimea. There is a large submarine bunker there under a mountain and Command center that alone should tell anyone the seriousness the Russian's have for this region.
The Obama administration is not going to comitt forces into this area nor use all it's assets including WMD to save or take it back. If Obama started this ruckus as some folks say in retaliation for a Russian inspired attack on Benghazi which some (Richard at Belmont club) are saying is Obama's Battle of Midway moment (Obama playing the part of the IJN or he lost and is hiding the fact from everyone) then he screwed the pooch.
Cold war tactics projected first day of WW3 this area sterilized by NATO to take out the Black Sea bases and the Dardanelles and Bosporus mined to prevent passage into the Med. and the Atlantic and to allow Operations by US/NATO forces access to the Black sea for amphib ops into Russia and support the Turks coastal areas THAT is how important this base and country is to the Russians.
The next step Putin will take is to acquire control of the areas of the straits mouth's and center all the way to the Mediterranean sea.
If Obama played this game he played Hell and Putin Got out the old hammer and went Slavic on him.
Russia will go nuclear for this area as Putin said recently, he is prepared to use theater tactical nuclear weapons on any force attempting to enter the Ukraine.
I believe him, question is does Obama believe him.
I bet the Joint Chiefs of Staff believe him.
Concerning community organisers. I think many inner city community organisers gain success is because left leaning government, be it at a local or national level, capitulate. Community organisers and activists are a scourge of modern Western society; they are shadow governments and bypass wide spectrum legitimacy. In politics success counts, but the reality or substance of that success these days counts for little. That's why Barry O is a danger he believes himself to be competent. The term is meta-cognation. He is too arrogant and stupid to know that he is arrogant and stupid. I do wonder in your next election whether say Ted Cruz will lose not just because of Democrat spin and hype generated by the (potential) of Clinton, H becoming your first female leader, but simply because he isn't white. I think your politics are in danger of becoming that polarised. I keep saying it isn't distant lands like Ukraine that your problem it is the real economy back home and the southern border; those two should be your biggest concern.
DeleteAs for the road block jumping BMP, Caltrops people, they are your friend.
ReplyDeleteRecall those big X shaped things on the beach in the film Saving Pvt Ryan? situate them inside the road block covered and concealed to pierce and penetrate the belly of a charging BMP.
A stack of tires won't stop a decent 4 x 4 they do burn well though.
Speaking of gas, lookee here. Burisma Holdings, Ukraine’s largest private gas producer, has expand its Board of Directors by bringing on Mr. R Hunter Biden as a new director. If the name sounds familiar, Hunter is the son of the U.S. Vice President.
ReplyDeleteOne odd fact is that all these US foreign policy failures have come during a time when the US, via the NSA, has had complete information, by snooping, on all the positions and communications of diplomats and others from every country of the world where the US has an interest.
ReplyDeleteNow that is a point, a very valid point. Keith Alexander must be puking in a bucket now. So it seems its not More Information that counts, just Precise Information.
DeleteYes, information overload.
DeleteSo let's be sure to contribute to it by sending an email every once in a while with: bomb, suicide, detonate etc. in the contents.
I beg to differ Mr. Solomon. First, English is not my native language, so forgive me for my mistakes.
ReplyDeleteI'm from Brazil, and as I see it, Ukraine was a Russian defeat. If you look into eastern europe history, Ukraine has been a Russia satellite for centuries; and more than a satellite, Ukraine has been a buffer betwen Russia and west Europe. So, if you look back at the 2 WW, the nazis only stopped at Stalingrad because they had to fight 600 miles through Ukraine, from Poland, wasting thousand of lives and equipment and precisous time before arriving at Stalingrad. Russia has lost his satellite and his buffer when Ukraine left Russia's sphere of influence.
More: after 2 WW, then Soviet Union had all eastern europe under her hammer. Until the beginning of this year only two countries in Europe was under Russian hammer: Belarus anda Ukraine, and now only Ukraine. In short: Russia anexed Crimea, yes: but lost Ukraine. And Ukraine worth more than Crimea. Just my 0.2 cents.
your english is fine, but i still disagree with your assessment.
Deletefirst the prize as many people have said is the sea base in Crimea. additionally greater Ukraine is an economic basket case. there really isn't anything worth having there except for an indebted nation that wants to be part of the EU but is unwilling to pay their own way in reforms and financial pain to get there.
the Russians got what they wanted. the EU isn't about invade Russia and a buffer is no longer a consideration. influence is the coin of the realm and even the Ukrainians will admit that Russia is a bigger influence than the EU now.
Ukraine is within Russia's sphere of influence. USA should keep out this region.
ReplyDeleteHow would you like it if Russia starts to influence Mexican politicians to join a Russian-led Defense Alliance?
Anyway, its the US Arms Industry that benefits most whenever a threat of War starts.......
Nicaragua, Cuba, Argentina, and a host of other S. American countries are under the Russian spell. what were you saying again?
Delete