The village of Novoaydar in the Lugansk region is being attacked by Ukrainian troops, according to the local self-defense leader.via Washington Post...
“Around 15 APCs have come near Novoaydar,” Aleksey Chmilenko said. “Our self-defense guards are trying to stop the attack and prevent the vehicles moving farther in the direction of Lugansk.”
Meanwhile, representatives of another Lugansk region self-defense group, based in Krasny Luch, told RT that they have seen APCs in the region, but have not heard any fighting yet.
Novoaydar election commission is reportedly being evacuated by self-defense activists, after it was attacked by National Guard troops.
Earlier in the day, shooting and artillery fire was heard on the outskirts of Slavyansk, in southeast Ukraine’s Donetsk region, RIA Novosti reported, citing its correspondent in the area.
Drunken mobs roamed the otherwise deserted center of this eastern port city Saturday a day after clashes between pro-Russian militants and Ukrainian security forces left at least seven people dead and the region as a whole continued to seethe on the eve of referendum to secede.This is the type of social collapse that many see coming to the United States.
A deadly firefight Friday broke the calm of a patriotic holiday and heightened tensions ahead of Sunday’s hastily organized plebiscite to break with the interim government in Kiev. Late Friday, a group of unidentified assailants attacked and briefly detained several Red Cross volunteers, including a French citizen, at an office in Donetsk
Remember that this all started over matters of the Ukrainian economy...some wanted to move closer to the EU but the price to be paid was going to be severe.
It is obvious to all but the most strident globalization disciples that the current system has failed. Ukraine is simply the latest victim of a system gone wild.
True that many Western Ukrainian political leaders saw the EU as a better alternative than Russia, but only for themselves! It is a gravy train for politicos of all types. More than one of our poorer politicians, remember there are few good politicians in the West, have gone to Europe as commissioners and made millions. That they got to stick to Russia was just icing (frosting) on top.
ReplyDeleteThe German people don't want to pay for the EU, their politicians know that unless the EU expands and the Euro is adopted by more states the wheels come off their economy. And their economy is Europe, mostly. But let us not pretend this is some long game for Europe's good only a long game for Germany's good. Remember the words to their national anthem?
The USA is achieving a few goals or trying to achieve a few goals and failing miserably at it. Well apart from one. Encircling Russia. And increasing its reach towards Central Asia aka China's backdoor. The only goal it is making is keeping Europe unstable, or just this side of unstable.
What surprises me is the arrogance of "our" side. They seem affronted that Russia should be affronted. They seem affronted because the Russians have used hard power (at the lowest end) to achieve an aim; this really shows Europe to be rather like Saudi Arabia militarily, all shiny toys but without the wherewithal to use them never mind falling troop numbers. They seem affronted that some don't want to be part of the West and want to be Russian, calling for Ukrainian self determination while failing to recognise the right to self-determination of others. The Chinese must be laughing their collective socks off.
From what I can tell the people on the ground just want to be left on their own.
What scares me is the thought of Hilary Clinton in the White House; if that happens we can all kiss our asses goodbye.
The biggest problem is that Europe is just became fat. Fat and lazy in the thinking that times of conflict is behind them, that borders after clashes in Balkans are secure and nobody will try o change them. EU believe in that, US believe in that...
DeleteIt was a beautiful dream, that now we can all live in peace, trade with each others and travel wherever we want. Hell I even had in plans a trip in Trans Siberian train with my friends. But now everything change.
Shit hit the fan so fast, so hard that I think nobody was prepare for that... well maybe one country was prepare, if you know what I mean.
When I hear words of Kremlin clown, Władimir Żyrinowski that Russia will need to destroy couple of country's with nuke strikes to show that nobody will mess with them. Or representative of President Putin tweet that next time Romania will make problems with flying thru them he will do that in Tu-160 bomber and show Romanian where they belong and what Russia think about them... I'm have shivers. Not because some dude say stupid think but that Gov. don't deny them.
When this became so fuck up that one nation threaten other nuclear annihilation? Dark clouds gather over world and I'm afraid that we start to hear the thunders.
@Steve
DeleteGood summary.
It's hard to escape the thought that the US, by instigating the fascist-aided coup in Kyev, is actually trying to weaken the EU and particularly Germany and especially Merkel including by prioritizing the bugging of her mobile phone. It's a constant theme of US foreign policy -- divide and conquer. (The EU strategy would be additional to breaking up Ukraine and trying to isolate Russia.)
Russia's big problem is they have a goose laying eggs for them and they do not want to kill it. This my be keeping them from being more aggressive then they are. Ukraine still has factories making spare parts for the Russian military.
Deletehttps://medium.com/war-is-boring/dd4fda8cf09f
well when i look at this thing from 2000 feet above it really looks like the play book from the 1961 Special Forces Manual on supporting freedom fighters in hostile countries.
Deletethis thing is a textbook on Special Forces units acting as force multipliers by organizing and leading indigenous forces.
Don, that "fascist" thing is just an myth, set-up an old soviet propaganda trick. You know that when in Poland 89' there was a change of government from soviet backed real socialist to democratic pro-western one the Russian media call this a "fascist coup"? Everyone who oppose Russia is a "fascist", US was a fascist, France was a fascist... everyone on the "wrong" side of Iron Curtain was a fascist for Russians.
DeleteThis is just a propaganda trick, nothing more.
Instead of fascist I would us the term ultranationalist. We shouldn't be scared of Russia, but we shouldn't be disrespectful either. If we took the "bomb" out of the equation would Western European tanks be rolling across the Ukraine now to shore up their eastern defences? No. Are there US, UK or French forces landing in the Baltic states? No. And that tells you how serious Berlin and Washington are about the situation. The roots of this mess go back two decades. We need to let Ukraine split, populations move, and borders settle. We should force neutrality on Ukraine and get the Russians to accept the same for Belarus. Hopefully this will stem some of the panic in the Baltic. War is only good for business when the other team can't glass your entire country. For all the Russian might they can't move much beyond their own borders. The Germans need to accept they have lost yet another war, lost it before they started, and go home to build cars, drink beer, and eat sausage. They are nearly as big a danger as the Barry O White House.
DeleteSteve, Europe did the same deal with one dude in the past... it's end pretty bad.
DeleteFascists and neo-nazis are part of the equation ... look at the raw footage:
Deletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZiJRnaom_E
@ Shas
DeleteMy country has had clearly defined borders since 927AD. Our system of government evolved over 1000 years. Things only started to go wrong when we got to involved with Europe in a big way over the last hundred years. Getting involved over there has bleed my country dry.
It is easy to compare Putin to Hitler. But I think it is a bit of stretch. To be honest the mistake the West made was not treating the end of the Cold War in the same way as it treated the end of the first two World Wars. Or should that be we didn't learn from the mistakes made at the end of those wars? We should have opened up to Russia and we would now see a Europe that truly does stretch from the Straits of Gibraltar to the Urals. We didn't. And we even made the mistake of disarming making us even more dependent on the US for conventional defence.
See it as appeasement if you like. Speaking bluntly I would rather a Ukraina have to move to the west of his country, ha country what a joke, than our children die because some idiot from the US and some incompetent in Berlin pushed the wrong buttons.
Over the last few weeks I have become more and more convinced that reuniting Germany was a bad decision as was extending the EU further east and even extending NATO. It would have left us with a nice wide buffer zone. The Cold War ended but the nuclear weapons didn't go away. I don't think Putin needs "living space" I just think fundamentally he wants respect for Russia. The Obama White House treats Al Qaeda and Mexico with more reverence.
Well my country don't have in any case that long history of defined borders. We lost and retake, conquest new ones and lost them pretty large number of times. Bu in most years of our existing as single "nation" we ware at war with Russia. For many reasons, land, towns... because. We know them pretty well from inside and outside, almost 750 years of constant fights give you a opportunity to get to know someone pretty good.
DeleteRussia is not a western civilization... it's not an Eastern civilization, it's unique in many cases and you need to know how to treat them. You don't "open up" towards Russia, you don't speak nice words with Russia, you don't play with Russia because Russians understand and respect only one thing and that thing is strength. If you are weak they will not respect you, they will destroy you. If they afraid of you, then they will respect you.
That's why Russians always respect strong leaders, no mater if he kill them in millions... if he is strong leader, they want him. They are band of sheep's that need to by leaded by lion. And that lion always want the respect, if he don't have it he will grab it. No mater if people will die, world need to fear the Bear because for Russians fear means respect.
Cold War never end, there was only a time break to gather new strength by one of the player and he want to get back on the field, even if he didn't notice that filed change and other players take his place. Cold War is state of humans from the beginning of nations.
Steve,
Delete'tis folly to think that the Germans would have allowed themselves to remain divided once the West and the Kremlin basically took a pass on using violence to suppress the reunification. It was going to happen either with the US and the USSR or without it.
While there may indeed by nationalist and far right activists involved in the Ukraine, to suggest that the entire pro-Europe leaning Western and Northern portions of Ukraine or the current gov't in Kiev are fascist is just inflammatory generalization for propaganda purposes. Don't forget that Ukraine's economy has languished under a system of oligarchs and corruption for the past twenty-plus years. The Ukrainians who live in Western and Northern Ukrainian have seen a nation like Poland make the hard decisions to convert to a capitalist economy and have seen it become a very modern, economically successful nation. It must inspire a great deal of envy to think that they, too, could have benefited from a more open economic and political system rather than a closed, corrupt apparatchik holdover from the USSR.
And the polling of resident's in Eastern Ukraine signify that while they might not agree with the Kiev gov't, they don't necessarily want to be Russian either. It's not like Russia's society or economy or political system is exactly attractive. What they don't want, and what they seemed destined to be forced to endure, is chaotic and violent unrest that will wreck their country.
Plus, the Western and Northern parts of the Ukraine weren't part of Russia, they were part of the Austro-Hungarian empire i.e. Galicia, Poland. Prior to that they were part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. They had a vastly different cultural and economic history from that of Russia and when the Bolsheviks came in to collectivize/nationalize their private possessions, destroy their churches, they were butchered and starved into submission. They aren't as fond of Soviet Russia as old Vlad and the Donetsk boys might be.
The Ukraine lies right in the middle of one of those cultural fault lines between Catholic Europe and Orthodox Russia. And that is something that Putin and the Russians don't want to acknowledge, that there indeed was a Ukraine before and that it was a country/or countries that were separate from Russia/USSR e.g. Galicia, Ruthenia, Poland, etc..
'tis folly? :) I like that methinks.
Deletea) Unification happened because the UK, the French, and the US allowed it to happen. The French got the Euro out of the deal. I think the US were already a bit wrong footed as the fall of the USSR came so quickly; I think the enthusiasm for GW1 showed in a way they had been relieved of the shackles of Europe. But forgone conclusion? No. If there had be some political pragmatism it wouldn't have happened. It seemed the entire Western leadership were demob happy apart from Mrs Thatcher; nobody likes a party pooper do they?
As for Ukarine not being part of Russia I distinctly said that borders should be shifted and left to settle. I distinctly said "Western Ukraine" to differentiate; yes I know I should have "Northern" too but in a basic east west political crisis just using the terms east and west makes things a tad simpler.
As for whether Russian speakers in the East Ukraine want to be part of Russia I have seen enough evidence now to suggest that yes indeed there is a three way split. But I think the pro-independence from Kiev but not joining Russia would rather go with the latter if there was danger from Kiev. So I read there position as pro-Russian. Let's not forget that what is driving a lot of the tension on the ground is fear of Western Ukrainian ultranationalists.
Putin doesn't want the entire Ukraine. He wants to destabilise the state so it puts skids on under the EU and NATO expansion. If he gains a bit of territory that is all well and good. Given that Russia's actions are supposedly being made in the name of Russian culture you can't say they don't recognise the cultural schism; it is what is driving the crisis for Pete's sake.
Good borders make good neighbours.
I don't think I used the term fascist; I have problems with how that word is used. It is used too much in the press to mean right-wing. Fascism or corporatism is just another of socialism.
That line about Saudi Arabia....shiney toys but no guts to use them.......I mean, come to think about it...which US Ally has the ability and the political, Economic, Military GUTS or should i say Wherwithal to fight Independant of the US and Independant of Each other....even in Libya, no EU country had the ability to independantly beat a hollowed out antique political army. This is the kind of military action that Europeans used to specialize in during the colonial days.
DeleteThe list of US allies (especially ones to get bullied)
DeleteCan Phillipines fight Independantly ?.......No
Can Taiwan Fight Independently for a sustained duration ?.....No
Can Japan Fight Independantly ?.......Yes, but they wont cause the US cradles them like a baby.
Can South Korea fight Independantly ?.....yes, but like Japan.....
That Saudi Arabian Shiney Toy comment really got me, I mean when you really really think about it...The only Ally that has the ability to fight independantly from the US is........................Pakistan. The only country that is US Ally(and proud of it...lol) which has a well proven record to act independantly, fight conventional style, fight guerilla style, fight own sovereign citizen style, fight genocidal massacre style etc. And they do it without those shiney weapons....mostly.
Oh..and add Israel to that Independant list. But Israel is, as you all know....in a league of its own.
DeleteFor all their bitching about carrying the load of Western of defense the US actually prefers it because it means Europe isn't a competitor. Imagine a Europe with the support assets in equal proportion to its teeth units, imagine a Europe with Cold War levels of manning, and imagine a Europe with its own space based ISTAR/GPS assets on a equivalent scale. Um. Imagine a Europe with a Germany more like the UK and France in its military outlook. That world would be a lot different
DeleteThe difference between this American Empire and the British Empire is that we didn't or couldn't go too far down the militarily route. The British Empire was built on trade, diplomatic wrangling, and control of the seas. We had to trade because our industrial capacity wasn't large enough to satisfy what post-1850-ish was a global market. Our military power in the colonies was built on native forces. The US on the other hand did have the industrial base and could have just sat back and let innovation work for them with the customers coming to them. Instead they went after control of the foreign markets, couldn't sustain it financially. went off the Gold Standard, and we are where are. Unfortunately using military power, even if it is just a force in being, and exporting your political ideology doesn't win your friends. The British ruled a third of the planet and the seas with only small portion of the power the US now wields. The shock for the US is that the Chinese are following the British pattern and have the capacity in labour too. Lastly it seems the US government seems intent on waging war on the bedrock of the state, the law abiding centrist middle class family, while supporting Islamic terrorism and the rights of Mexicans. Hopefully somebody on Capitol Hill will discover the word isolationism before they gets us killed.
Steve, I agree to your point in the US preferring that EU being handicapped in their own defence let alone power projection. I mean, just look at the last time a EU nation independantly projected power over a decent size country.....you have to go back 30 years into the Falklands war and even then the British could only assemble a last minute Stop Gap force rather than a force deliberatly created years ago with planning for that kind of a situation, and that was at the hieght of the cold war. Todays EU forces pale in front of even that force. I know that man for man, EU soldiers are a tough nut to crack cause of the 13 years of Afghanistan/Iraq action and that decade plus of experience. But unless USA paves the way, EU troops cant do anything outside their continent and in some cases.......even inside their own continent.
DeletePeople keep talking about the Russian Army as....ohh you know, they are still not capable to act beyond their immediate boundaries or they can only reach their neighbouring countries. WTF ??
DeleteAt least they got out and crossed a friggin border, has the german army even reeched out of their barracks ? Give credit where it is due, Ukraine Happened....it happened and it could not have happened in any other way. And it happened to the one country that actually deserved it. The same way that Iraq happened to Kuwait. The same way that India happned to East Pakistan(Bangladesh). The same way that China might happen to the Phillipines. Appreciate how those sly vodka drinking buggers executed it and if.....if possible, dont let it happen again.
You dont keep 400,000 soldiers under the guise of AFSPA in Kashmir for nothing, the above mentioned point is exactly why you need to keep your defences up in a bad neighbourhood. And while maintaining an army, you insure that equipment or no equipment, your men are bloody willing and able to fight. The Ukraininan army that way is a bloody mess. All that talk about tartars hating the russians.....well, where the heck were they when the Little Green Men approached ?....I mean, a half starved half blind LTTE chap offers more defence utility than a Ukrainian regular.
DeleteAnd here lies the giggest difference between the US way of thirld world army building, and the old British way of Third world Army Building. When the British used to invade any country back then, they actually used to reform a local army but still keep the old kingdoms veterans in uniform and not disband them fully. And the new recruits used to be drafted from a well known martial or tough local race with a track record of being a pain in the ass for both the locals and even the british. What kind of psychological alchemy they uesd to do to marry the Martial community with British Ideals, only the british know. And thats why, most ex-british ruled countries still have units that have 100,200 years of un-interrupted service and history which is another way of saying that those respective govt's that own the regiments are still alive, still functioning, still meeting the challenges of terrorists and other aggressors. I have yet to see a similar American Trained third world unit or a whole amry for that matter. Whenever the US "Liberates" a country, they marginalise the existing dominant community and old experienced army veterans and recruit from the bottom scrapes of the barrel for the reformed army. Iraq is one prime example of collapsing US trained units, Afghanistan will also be. Vietnam also was. India, Pakistan, South Africa are british examples. Strong tough communities do not let Governments down and stand as sentinals for centuries.
Deletewe don't have a record of success? how about Europe after WW2? we payed to clean up the mess, we even helped the Russians get back on their feet.
Deletewithout the Marshal plan, Europe would just now be reaching the level of 1960's America. as much as you chest thump understand that i haven't been impressed by what India is doing and i've hesitated writing about how the Chinese are basically taking territory and all the Indian Army can do is watch.
if you want to throw stones make sure you don't live in a glass house and have people that have binoculars on the situation you're bragging about.
Well, we are watching with the same binoculars you are using to watch the Russians in Ukraine. And yes, i do live in a glass house as do the russians and the chinese. We have stones, they have stones, you have stones too. Do you have the Balls to use those stones ? Do they have the balls to use those stones ? The Marshal plan was an economic plan. I am talking about hardore military reformation. Why is it that whenever we hear about the new afghan/iraq army, we see a buch of scrawny ex-peasants and news about desertion and low morale contrasting with that of their foes, always the meanest sons of bitches with high morale even in face of devestating drone attacks wiping out their leadership and still being more than a match for reformed indegenous army without US support. If only you had used some of those old battle hardened Ba'athist veterans and kick ass tribes and married them with your ideals, Fallujah would have been full of families sending out young adults to join the Iraqi Army rather than fight against it. This is where British colononial officials were the Aces and enslaved most of the world......including unfortunatly my own "Glass House". But the army and structure and philosophy they left behind still stands. It even stood when the Soviets were trying to wrap India in communism and failed.
DeleteFYI, the Chinese are not taking Indian Territory in the modern days. Contrary to popular news reports of Chinese Incursions...they are more like Dog Pissing Territory Marking competitions. Its actully comical what both the countries are doing...sending out detachments into each others territory and literally dumping trash and garbage there. Thereby signifying that We were here, this is our Piss dog marking this territory. Whenever some random civilian or tourist finds chinese marked garbage on indian soil, out goes the media, ditto for the chinese media.
Deletewhat isn't the Afghan army working? real simple. we tried to modernize a primitive people. additionally special interests groups took the eye off the ball and women's education, solving illiteracy and improving infrastructure became just as important as fighting the war.
Deletewe attempted to do what the EU and the other liberals wanted. we attempted to make a primitive state modern.
it was stupid. it flies in the face of reality but there you have it.
quite honestly i'll always cheer for India in all its battles (except against us) but you have some serious problems to solve and the leadership isn't addressing it (well they're not doiing it quickly). a modern military that has some of the most high tech fighters, helicopters and an aircraft carrier is failing to equip its troops with decent gear.
my point is simple. failure is easy to identify. hard to clean up.
the real question we should ask about any nation is whether it has been a force for good or evil during its existence. we have a history that includes things we would rather forget but we've been working hard at preserving the peace despite the critics.
the UK can say the same. Germany and France? a much MUCH MUCH more checkered history but they're trying to get it right.
the Chinese aren't taking Indian territory? seriously? really! so thats why the Indian Command is building a force of elite Mountain Troops that will get the best gear available...only to be stationed on the border with China!
DeleteLooking back at my comments, I do believe that i ranted waaayy too much and michg have offended certain sections. Let me apolofize before Solomon tells me to "Go Pound Sand, Bitch". Anyway, Like i said, The chinese are not taking indian territory, havnt taken it since 1962. All territory with India since 1962 can be visited even today with without question. You can come to India and catch a bus or train to that place and have a Indian Transport Org's ticket as proof, even Tawang in Arunachal Pradesh. You have indian zip/postal code there, govt. offices, populated areas, schools with children singing the Indian National anthem, local democratic govt.s, the sovereign currency even Indian govt. corruption to verify the fact that that territory is Indian. One of our Prime Ministrial Candidates recently had a rally there.
DeleteBut Solomon, my basic point is that the next time USA props up a Govt. or searches for a new ally, Please verify that the people/org./race that you are propelling actualy want to fight for themselves and do not become a drain on you. You have tough army and an amazing political setup compared to the rest of the world, but what can even the strongest man do when out of breath with many many miles to go ?....This is where allies who are net providors rather than consumers of security come into the picture. Eg.- You can always rely on the Israelies to come to your aid and be your sheriff in the mid-east. But can you trust the Saudis ?....or the Iraqi Army in its current state ?
DeleteWhat is that tracked vehicle? It is too small and not enough road wheels to be a BMP-2.
ReplyDeleteLooks like a small scout with a small bore main gun but I cannot figure out what it is.
i think its the airborne version of the BMP-3. i know that those are the ones with the bow mounted machine guns but like you said not enough road wheels and looks too small.
DeleteIt's a BMD-2 I think.
DeleteI know shouldn't have fun during a crisis but is nice to see all this kit, makes the news a bit interesting. Does that make me bad?
BMD-1 airborne IFV boys.
Deleteyeah that sounds right. i got stuck on BMP and forgot that the airborne and Marines use BMD's! good eye.
DeleteOr BMD-2 as Steve said, hard to distinguish them but I think that Steve is right.
DeleteVice news have been in the thick of it, it seems the national guard attack a police station in Mariupol. you can see it on youtube
ReplyDeleteAfter the separatist capture it we can ad. Also Police Chief of this station was hang by separatist.
Delete