Thanks William for the feed!!!!
If this is true then this is ground shaking news for a program already in trouble!
Trying to get up with contacts in the defense media to verify!
If this is true then this is ground shaking news for a program already in trouble!
Trying to get up with contacts in the defense media to verify!
A few days grounding (which includes a weekend) and which is pretty standard fare in the aircraft maintenance world is "ground shaking news". Christ Sol' are you really that desperate to turn everything into a "death Spiral" news story?
ReplyDeletethis is only the beginning. the plane is about to be flown like a fighter instead of a test project and you can bet more will happen with the push toward a very premature IOC.
Deletethe program is falling apart. everyone knows it. only a few don't want to admit what their eyes are seeing.
"Everyone knows it"? Really?? So I guess all those countries buying them in increasing numbers (and who are privy to all the real facts) and all the pilots making glowing comments about them are all blind? Dream on Sol' .
Deletethat was suppose to happen months ago....just now we're getting it??? sounds like propaganda! face it son. this plane is going no where.
DeleteGoing no where huh? I guess the next few years are going to be hard for you than as more are produced and flying and as more countries line up to buy them...
DeleteColin Clark reported this three days ago here, and then I think it was covered up because a big F-35 (panic) meeting was going on at Eglin at the same time.
ReplyDeleteClark didn't mention it in his Breaking Defense article on the F-35 yesterday, here.
You might want to check your links before posting them Don - that first one is from 2011 NOT 3 days ago!
DeleteHere's some more news for you:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2014/06/11/house-appropriators-add-more-f-35s-for-2015/
http://www.dodbuzz.com/2014/06/13/navy-prepares-f-35c-for-carrier-landing/
So if a oil leak with a couple of days grounding is "ground shaking news" what does this qualify for: http://www.janes.com/article/38971/russian-t-50-pak-fa-fighter-prototype-catches-fire
ReplyDeletePerhaps the end of the world?
Actually, I apologise - this is more like the end of the world: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/tories-given-green-light-for-f-35-jet-decision/article19151099/
DeleteLol, buying a fighter plane with no cannon, that costs 200M ea, and might not even ever work, almost as bad as building a ship that exists, soley to carry these planes, which may not ever work!
Deletefrom Colin Clark's article:
ReplyDelete“The jet returned safely to base. As a routine safety precaution, the Joint Program Office (JPO) has temporarily suspended F-35 flight operations until a team of JPO and LM technical experts determines the root cause of the generator failure and oil leak,” Lockheed Martin F-35 spokesman John Kent said in a press statement. . .Kent noted that the F-35 has now flown 657 flights and this appears to be the first time a flight has encountered this problem. “Once the cause is known, the appropriate repairs and improvements will be made before flight operations resume,” he said.
Kent bettter readjust his glasses because of this news from Mar 11, 2011:
After weeks of being grounded the three late model F-35 Lighting II Joint Strike Fighter test jets have been cleared to fly. The jets’ return to flight comes after program officials tweaked maintenance procedures which had led to the failure of two generators and an oil leak during a test flight of an F-35A on March 9.
Don, the article you are quoting John Kent from is also from 2011...
DeleteThis shows the difference in US Development and Russian Development:
ReplyDeleteWhen we have something as like a gen failure & oil leak, we ground the fleet so as to assure that it's not a MAJOR safety hazard.
When the Soviets have one of only a handful of their Dev planes BURN up (likely a w/o) in front of the Indian contingent, they claim "We will fix it and it will NOT affect our schedule".
The PAK-FA T-50 prototype first flew on 29 January 2010 and the aircraft is slated to enter service in the Russian Air Force in 2016.
DeleteThe first flight of the F-35 was Dec 2006 and it is slated for a production decision in 2019.
"a production decision in 2019" - But of course you fail to also mention that by 2019, hundreds of F-35s will already have been built, delivered and flying...
DeleteDon, I see that you are using two COMPLETELY different metrics for comparison.
DeleteFor the F-35, you are pointing to the start of Full Rate Production but for the Pakfa you are looking at "enter service". Using the Russian Metric for the US would mean the F-35 "Entered Service" YEARS ago.
How many of your already build F35 will have to go back to plant for Retrofitting in 2019 ? All of them !
DeleteHow much will it cost to retrofit them ? More than new ones !
What will them become ? Change parts and scrap in the USAF cimetiery, just between the A10 and the F15 scrap fields...
I could bet that the weapon panel of the PAK FA will be larger than the F35 one in 2019.
It's time to stop dream'in !
Prototypes, that will need to be thrown out, because they won't be combat ready production planes. Planes which cost like 150M+ ea, hundreds of them, tens of billions of dollars.
DeleteOh look, two idiots who don't have a clue what they are talking about.
DeleteThe Biggest difference between the F-35 and the Su-50 is the fact that the russians know they will not be able to replicate your STOVL version and that actually makes their job that much easier. In-essance, what they are doing is comming up with Just Another Sukhoi. The minor Difference being that its got some bits and parts of stealth and a new AESA radar. Strip all of that and its just another Sukhoi. Which is to say that its not a bad aircraft.......just simpler to make.
DeletePut the inevitable high-cost retrofits aside for a moment... What's going to happen when one of these turkeys takes some fire?
DeleteSingle Engine don't forget.
Plus the B-models have lots of external doors, a rotating engine exhaust, and an internal turbofan. A failure in any one of these would make VTOL Impossible. Whereas the Harrier just needs to rotate 2 small exhaust nozzles for VTOL to work.
Really, it's just the Osprey debacle all over again.
as a STOVL, it would face the same hardships and vulnerablilty to debris and pebbles and particles from dust laden runways as the harrier did. The fact that inspite the lingevity of the Harrier and the technical marvel of the STOVL mechanism of the F-35, when will HUMANS learn that we still have not mastered STOVL. We still havnt mastered Jump Jets. And as such, the F-35 should be a project prototype til lwe get all the technologies right. Not a front line fighter. This is not WW1 that we need to get a less than perfect, unrialiable and completly new weapon like the TANK into the fray.
DeleteThey covered up the bad news for 3-4 days because of this high-level, international meeting going on and they didn't want the negative responses that would have come when they were discussing financial support of this troubled program: (from news reports)
ReplyDeleteIn a teleconference with reporters on June 12 following an F-35 steering committee meeting at Eglin AFB, Fla., Pentagon acquisition executive Frank Kendall said IOC for the Marine Corps and the Air Force, with the 2B and 3I software builds, respectively, is on track.
The F-35 steering committee, comprising US program leaders and international partners, met at Eglin AFB, Fla., this week. On the agenda was the financial challenge of each user buying its planned inventory of the jets.
Do you mean the biannual CEOs "panic" meeting which they have every six months?
Delete"covered up the bad news"?? Talk about BS! an oil leek is minor news. Grounding to investigate the details is pretty standard fare and is the sort of thing that happens all the time with aircraft, as anyone who has worked around them will know. To try to make this out to be something more than it is simply shows the lengths of desperation you lot will go to to bolster your dreams. Pathetic really.
ReplyDeleteThen why did they cover it up?
DeleteDepends on what was leaking. Lots of moving parts on that bird, and only one engine. An oil leak in the right place could crash the plane.
Delete"buying them in increasing numbers"
ReplyDeleteforeign buys, last three funded and contracted LRIP-Qty:
5 -0, 6- 5, 7- 6
Wow, those numbers are out of sight!
+1
DeleteDream on Don! You either know the truth but you don't want to admit it or you are truly delusional.
ReplyDeleteThose are the numbers. The numbers you've seen in fan-articles are wish lists, and not real.
DeleteFan article wish lists? I didn't know Program of Record was a Fan article wish list. I didn't know announcements from Governments were Fan article wish lists...
DeleteWell you've learned something and now you know. No contract with money, no sale.
DeleteCome back in a few years and tell us about how no-one is buying Don.
Delete"A few days grounding"
ReplyDeleteIt hasn't ended yet. The last time it happened it took them three weeks to "tweak the maintenance procedures." hah
Desperation Don. Come back in a week's time will you.
DeleteYou got it backwards. I'm not grounded, the F-35 is.
DeleteOh you are grounded…in your basement.
DeleteIs it a cultural phenomenon that americans usually refer to a person operating a computer as In the Basement ?........is that where most of your computers are ?
DeleteHow about Laptops and I-pads ?
There was no cover up! If you truly believe the partner nations (all who have people in the JPO and/or elsewhere - often with the aircraft themselves) aren't made fully aware of all developments than you are so out of touch with reality that it is pointless even trying to discuss such things with you.
ReplyDeleteSome of us check all the F-35 news sources frequently because we love it so much. This news was covered up for 3-4 days. It's STILL not on the #f35 twitter feed which normally catches every twitch in the program.
DeleteMaybe it wasn't posted because it is such a minor issue. I can assure you that all those who need to know (and sorry but you don't qualify) know what is going on.
ReplyDeleteGrounding the F-35 fleet, a hundred aircraft procured for about twenty billion dollars, is hardly a minor issue on anyone's scale especially when it will delay a test program that is already years behind schedule and (understandably) there are few buyers for the plane in sight.
DeleteOil Leakage is not a Minor issue. Leaked oil when comming in contact with hot surfaces in a tight space with little chance of leakage of gasses and force is usually a bad idea. Thats like throwing a thermobaric bomb into a cave.
DeleteDream on Don...
ReplyDeleteFew buyers huh? Yeah, I suppose the following only constitute a "few": USAF, USN, USMC, RAF, RNAF, RCAF, RAAF, RDAF, TAF, RSAF, IAF, ROKAF, JSDFAF...
ReplyDeleteCan you please show us signed contracts? No? Shut up then...
DeleteMajor Kudos to William and Solomon for breaking this news on the web, without them the four day delay would have been much greater because NOBODY ELSE is reporting it.
ReplyDeletethank you! despite Scar Lett saying otherwise, this is big news at an important time for the program.
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Delete"NOBODY ELSE is reporting it." - Gee, I wonder why?
ReplyDeleteThis is not a big deal, unless it goes on for weeks or months. AV-8Bs were grounded for almost a year around 2000. We did not have any Harriers when I went through WTI in Yuma because of the grounding. F-14s, F/A-18s, and F-15s have all been grounded for significant amounts of time during their lifespans.
ReplyDeletewhen you and i went through WTI it wasn't a big deal because the USMC had other aircraft that did the mission. training went on. what happens if the F-35 fan boys dreams come true and suddenly our entire fleet of F-35's are grounded and we have no other fast movers for close air support??????
DeleteIt could be a minor technical issue but it could still have big implications. Efforts to increase production rates could take a hit, keeping costs high. Possible additional costs due to redesign and retrofitting mistake jets.
ReplyDeleteI see the word is for an update on the situation in a few days. No info yet on when they could lift the grounding.
Solomon thanks for blogging this, not seen it anywhere else!
thanks and awesome perspective. i can't lie. i'm hoping the program fails. it will free up money for more worthwhile projects while we can get a real replacement for the Harrier, F-16, A-10 and Hornets. but its good to have a balanced view of things.
DeleteYou think you have a balanced view of things?? When was the last time you noted anything positive from the JSF before your big turn against it just over a year ago?
DeleteBefore that your "balance" was threatening anyone who didn't suck the JSF cock hard enough, as its number 1 fan boy complete with fan fiction of how it saved the day.
I guess you think the internet has a short memory
obviously you can't read and discern. i was complimenting Signatory for having a balanced view. i admitted that i didn't. so suck a dick, eat shit and die, and don't come back you slimy bottom feeding bastard.
DeleteSol have you noticed the more you complain about the JSF being canceled the more countries sign on, and the more planes they build? Are you using reverse psychology or something? keep up the great work!!
DeleteMr. internet analyst, what do you think will happen as the F-35 continues to built in larger numbers more efficiently, while more countries place orders?
In other words, put on your little economist hat and tell me what happens when the supply side continues to improve its efficiency while demand increases? Think really hard.
...And then explain how that equals "death spiral" or "cancelation" Ironically when the JSF was most in trouble of being canceled is when you were a fanatical advocate of it a few years back when the F-35B was on probation. That was probably the closest it came, not off probation and 1 year from IOC.
Lets make a deal, if the F-35 is still not canceled in a year you stop this retarded blog (sorry its not the blogs fault, its the guy who write on it) and apologize, and if it is canceled I'll send you $100 cash. Lets make it interesting Sol, you are so confident how about you put your money where your mouth is? How long is this death spiral supposed to take anyway? I feel like I have been waiting forever now
So Sol, Wanna bet? June 15, 2015 The worst that happens is you shut down this blog and go find someplace else to attention whore.
who exactly has signed on lately? the Brits were suppose to sign a contract back in feb or march and still haven't. the Australians were suppose to buy 100 plus and thats down to 70 odd planes. the Canadians still haven't pressed the trigger. Italy was at over 100, they're down to 90 and many expect that number to be halved. Spain was suppose to be a certain buyer so that they could replace the Harrier. instead they team with the USMC to keep the Harrier viable until at least 2030 and some think longer, Japan had a requirement for 100 plus and instead are buying just under 50. S. Korea was suppose to be looking for 100 plus and they're only getting 42.
DeleteSO TELL ME WHERE THE F-35 IS ACTUALLY WINNING THE DAY????? IT SEEMS LIKE CUSTOMERS ARE BUYING FEWER THAN PLAN WHICH MEANS THE COST CURVE WON'T BEND WHICH MEANS THAT THE CUSTOMERS WILL BUY FEWER.
want a perfect example? check out the Typhoon. another? check out the A400M. so bet? yeah, i'll take you up on it.
oh and suck a dick. attention whore? its my fucking blog motherfucker you don't like it? go somewhere else.
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DeleteF15SE really won the 1st round, as it is the only affordable choice before the ROKAF reject the bid & make another round~
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Deletena, the bet shoud be the next Gov, Obama gov won't cancel F35 as he highly praised it as the fighter for the future etc when he made the decision shutting the F22 production line down
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DeleteOh man, look at the cock fight between DC and Solomon.
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ReplyDeleteG.W.Bush Gov canceled Comanche, Crusader
ReplyDeleteObama Gov canceled FCS, shed DDG1000 to 3, ended F22 production
so,the F35 is on the waiting list, as it is overpriced & underdeliver, when the time come(the next Gov) the axe will fall.
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ReplyDeleteNothing will be too big to fail, even the F35 program.
ReplyDeleteWhen LM is well compensated, they will terminate the F35 in no time.
May be a re-open F22 production line/ a few hundred new build F16V for USAF will make the deal~
Whats an F-16V ?
DeleteCheck the LM site out, it's sort of F16 packed with advance avionics/AESA/pods for F 16 upgrade~
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ReplyDeleteBoy oh boy this post really went south fast. Why do the F35 supporters feel it necessary to fling insults at people challenging the merits of this program? The reality is the F35 is a product that is marketed by groups who have a vested interest. These blogs are valuable to me so we can share our knowledge and find out the truths. Open, respectful debate should be the rule.
ReplyDeleteInstead of just claiming that fleet groundings happen all the time during development does anyone have any statistics on other platforms development? These risks may be negligible in the US but significant in Canada as we have a single fighter comprising our entire fleet. This also highlights my argument where Canada should be returning to a mixed fleet regardless of how advanced Lockheed claims the plane is.
Also, I don't think anyone can deny the F35 is missing their original sales targets. Yes countries are buying the F35 but not in the volume as first planned. UK must buy 48 just for the aircraft carriers they built, where else will they get jump jets? Korea bought a reduced order as they are in the TX program partnered with Lockheed and could generate $20billion in sales. Most countries have agendas outside the F35 program that influence their decisions. Australia seems to be the only country without a further agenda to buy the plane.
Anway, for the Best News in a correct Chronological Order check out Defence Industry Daily for both F-35 as well as the Su-50.
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ReplyDeleteDamn, Solomon is just Nuking Scar Lett and DM here. Its a pity about the content of the comments here. When i first saw 70 plus comments on this page, I got excited cause the last time Solomons page had this much activity it was a nice friendly and trending discussion on the Future MBT. I expected the same here but instrad saw some Marine triggered Tactical Nuc explosions. HAZMAT suits on everyone. Before someone throws in a real stinker.
ReplyDeleteSol' keeps deleting the truth/facts behind this when I post them (I guess we can't let those nasty facts prove how much of a beat up over nothing this is can we). Don't worry though, here they are yet again:
ReplyDelete" Pentagon temporarily grounded the entire F-35 Joint Strike Fighter fleet at the start of the weekend after one of the advanced jets suffered an engine oil leak...
...the suspension of flight and ground testing on Friday was described by F-35 program officials as a precautionary move...
...Engine maker Pratt Whitney, a unit of United Technologies Corp., said most of the 104-jet fleet had been cleared to resume flying by late Saturday following the safety inspections mandated by the F-35 managers on Friday…"
Hmmm…really "Ground Shaking" result - a grounding of 1 day at most for the majority of the fleet.
Source: http://online.wsj.com/articles/f-35-fighter-jets-temporarily-grounded-by-engine-problems-1402854181