via Aviation Week.
While deployment of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter to air shows in the U.K. may help to build momentum toward securing Britain’s order for the aircraft, it will also help build an understanding of the logistics requirements needed for the complex fifth-generation fighter.This is criminal.
Plans for the deployment now involve up to four F-35Bs arriving in the first week of July ready to make their international debut, first at the Royal International Air Tattoo at RAFFairford on July 11 and then at the Farnborough International Airshow, which opens on July 14.
In addition to appearing at the two shows, a sortie to Scotland to conduct a flyby at the naming ceremony of the new HMS Queen Elizabeth aircraft carrier is on the agenda.
The aircraft will be escorted across the Atlantic by a pair of U.S. Air Force KC-10 tankers. They will be joined by a C-17 and at least one Marine Corps KC-130J in support. The F-35s are expected to refuel around 10-12 times each during their crossing, flying direct from NAS Patuxent River, Maryland to Fairford, which will act as their home base during July
All you mad scientists and flight engineers can kiss my ass.
It doesn't take a degree in mathematics, aviation or any other science to look at this and realize that it stinks to high heaven.
The airplane was already grounded a couple of weeks ago, was rushed back into service and now its suffered this incident! Yet we're suppose to say that all is well and send someone's son across the Atlantic for a dog and pony show?
Criminal isn't a strong enough word.
Whoever is pushing this agenda needs to be prosecuted and if they're part of the military they should be busted to private and kicked out.
We aren't talking about a military emergency, wartime urgency or any other reason that justifies taking this risk. They've crossed the line on this one. They're breaking the law and so far no one is calling them out on it.
They are behaving like desperate gamblers.
ReplyDeleteIn the mean time....
ReplyDeletehttp://www.recreationalflying.com/threads/boeing-plots-hybrid-super-hornet-growler-future.120059/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/63317177@N00/5499701851
I'm going to the commisioning ceremony for the QE up in Rosyth. I shall be interested to see these wee beasties do their fly-by. Interesting times!
ReplyDeletei don't know how solid the info is, but i was told by someone that the review of the incident is ongoing. planning for the trip is still going forward but the whole thing will be called off if they can't find the source of the problem.
DeleteI would say that info is very solid Sol - on this side of the pond I have heard that too. If I may give you the British perspective on this; truth is, unlike you guys we have no F18 to fall back on so for us this is the only game in town. Now, the pilots that are taking the birds over the ditch will be British RN. The RAF are desperate to get involved but the 1st Sea Lord has managed to out-manouvre his RAF counterpart. What will happen next is anyone's guess but I'm guessing that even if they are grounded they will get their moment in UK skies. Apart from the the why's and wherefore's of this programme in the UK the RN is using this as their battle-ground to clip the RAF's wings when it comes to maritime air. It promises to be interesting. Domestically, the Russians are increasing their incursions into the UK air defence region and with the withdrawall from Afghanistan the Navy is going balls out for 'jam today'. Expect to see an uplift in the projected numbers for the type 26 frigate, additional recruiting, foward basing of RN assets in the Gulf region, exploration of conventional SSK's and crewing of OPV's by the Naval reserves. The next step is re-invigoration of blue-water skills (ASW, OTHT and ICBM defensive missiles on the Type 45) Basically, we are going back to cold war lite! Ahh, bring back the good old days!
ReplyDeleteRussia is doing exactly what one might expect when confronted with silly Western shenanigans.
Deletenews report:
(Reuters) - Britain's Foreign Secretary William Hague warned Russia on Monday that the EU was ready to impose tougher sanctions over the crisis in Ukraine if it is not satisfied with Moscow's response to Kiev's peace plan.
Yes, yes, yes.
ReplyDeleteYour best posting evah.--"This is criminal."
Aircraft prototypes which are unproven by completed development tests, which have unresolved problems with software durability and quality control, which are experiencing serious problems with bad aerodynamic behavior including turbulence and uncommanded “wing drop, with overall suitability performance continuing to be immature according to the Pentagon's chief tester, and with a lack of air-worthiness certification, nevertheless these faulty prototypes are scheduled, with their 1,000 mile range, to perform a 3,500 mile mission over the unforgiving Atlantic Ocean simply to be in Scotland and England for cheap political stunts meant to prop up UK Defence Minister Hammond's faulty decision to make these sorry excuses for competent military aircraft, which can take off but not land vertically (their expensive specialty) except in specially prepared perches, to make these over-priced mistakes the chief "strike fighters" operating off of the UK's latest boondoggle, the little carriers that could (but won't) that are currently being built in the very same country which the US will soon celebrate its independence from, the US minus the F-35 program that is. I guess they didn't get the memo.
They still plan to go through with this criminal stunt even before finding the root cause of the recent F-35 fire? They have found pilots who will do this??
Don,
ReplyDeleteYou are not wrong - Mr Hammond is a loon of epic proportions but he is just the mouth-piece for an inconsistent vision of what defence could, and should be. As stated in my response above, they have found the pilots to do this and they all have many hours under their belt. Now, make no mistake, they would not be engaged on this little adventure unless this undertaking was approved by the British Military Aviation Authority (MAA). This body was established as a framework outside the Military after the RAF were found to sign off on faulty maintanence procedures in the wake of a loss of a Nimrod over Afghanistan. In the UK we have a long list of aviation 'firsts' and rest assured, this will be one of them. The F35 is here to stay Don so my advice (for what it's worth!) is don't sweat the small stuff. Fight the battles you can win!
I'm sure your advice may be worth a lot to someone, but not me. Perhaps I took a different interpretation from your telling of UK military incompetence (on the Nimrod) then you did.
DeleteAs for the f-35, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; and we shall never surrender because the program and plane are expensive failures.
Look, if the planes can't make it to UK then there's Plan "B". And the planes will have to be flown into UK via a C-5 transport.
DeleteQuestion: In Sol's earlier post, why is the F-35A in a secured hangar with an ARMED GUARD?
Is anyone afraid the plane might run away?
hey Mark, i did check on that but failed to post it. the answer is that its supposedly standard procedure during an incident investigation to prevent tampering with evidence in case the incident turns into a criminal investigation. its also a shield against bloggers like myself of accusing the Air Force of not taking safeguards to prevent tampering with the airplane by an over zealous contractor attempting to switch blame from the hardware to the pilot.
DeleteThanks for clarifying this up, Sol.
DeleteI do, however, have a question/logic to this SoP: Why is the guard ARMED?
The UK has no choice. Their carriers can operate only Harriers, F-35Bs, or prop aircraft.
ReplyDeletethey have no choice because they aren't seeking another choice. if confronted with the facts of this planes poor performance or extreme costs then you'll see a different mindset. additionally the carrier can operate STOL aircraft like the Gripen without much modification and can handle F-18's or Rafales with more mods.
Deletethe UK has options, they just choose not to follow them.
Very valid points gentlemen but the fact is we have looked at the other options. Let me break it down for you. The Gripen - a bit too lightweight and needs to 'marinised' for what we have in mind. The Rafale - essentialy a good aircraft but let down by a pretty conservative electronic suite. The Eurofighter 'Typhoon' - two great RR engines, room to grow but needs Rolls-Royce levels of maintenence. So, what's left? F-35 - versatile, modern and room to grow. F18 - great aircraft, a world-beater for sure but alas, too long in the tooth. No gentlemen, after mature reflection this is the right aircraft for the RN. Is is right for the USMC and the USN? Well, it's not my place to say but having done a 9 month exchange on an American flat-top I know that the situation on your ships is 'brittle'. Manning problems, equipment upkeep, ships laid-up. Indeed, the morning I was due to sail on the John C. Stennis we stayed firmly tied up to the pier due to defence cuts and I had to transfer to another flat-top (fair do's, I had another to choose from!) but it was telling. So, to conclude. The RN knows what to do but does the USMC and the USN have a plan B?
ReplyDeleteThe Rafale - essentialy a good aircraft but let down by a pretty conservative electronic suite ?
DeleteCan you explain this point of view ?
Yes of course. The Dassault Rafale has proved itself to be a fairly good carrier aircraft although (much like their only carrier) the standards that were applied during the construction phase of the build programme were subsequently found wanting. This is a consistent problem that really ended up in the lap of the Sarkozy government and is still in need of remedial action. The avionics suite has proved to be problematic and because of data-bus issues is somewhere south of that carried by both the F18 and the RAF Typhoon. In all other aspects the MOD were really quite favourable towards this aircraft but the French proved unable to meet the full specification. Unfortunate really as it would have tied in nicely with the French build of PA2 which was a build under licence of the QE class. Luckily, they paid for the rights in full before cancelling the project. Much to the delight of the treasury. Perfidious Albion indeed!
Deletegood to know...never heard about data bus issue.
DeleteI'm surprisedit could have been resolved in british custom version of rafale, by the technology transfer.
I think it's more the US-UK alliance and LM looby that kicked out the rafale, if it was any time a candidate for RNAF.
You know, ole Timothy is starting to convince me by saying that RN pilots would fly these planes across the pond, and since flight safety is my primary concern, and these guys are obviously volunteers who should know the score, then why not.
ReplyDeleteWhy not?
First of all, the F-35 is not the "right aircraft" for anybody because the F-35 doesn't really exist as a marketable plane until its development program including all development tests and evaluations are concluded. I detailed some problems that we know about above, including the durability problem (broken bulkheads), and no doubt there will be other problems uncovered in the more vigorous testing to come.
Next, the F-35 that the UK would buy isn't the F-35 that the US has developed and tested. It's different. The Pentagon has spent three-quarters of a billion dollars changing the F-35 design for foreign buyers.
Finally, the "F-35 - versatile, modern and room to grow" is just too funny. How about: Supposed to do many things but can't do any of them well.
news report
ReplyDeleteThe Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps have halted all F-35 flights after a fire damaged an Air Force F-35A during takeoff Monday morning at Eglin Air Force Base, Florida.
It's a suspension, a halting, yadda yadda. They aren't calling it a grounding, as with the oil leak and engine blade failure, because that would require them to find the root cause and fix it, and they don't have the time to do that because of the upcoming air show in jolly old to help Phil (Hammond) in his hour of need. So when Sol calls it "criminal" there's the basis.
But, hey, if RN pilots are ***** enough to fly under these conditions.....
Amy Butler just tweeted that the F-35 fire was on a recent delivery from LRIP-5, which included contracts for 32 aircraft from Jul 6, 2010 to Jun 10, 2013.
ReplyDeleteLRIP-5
22A
3B
7C
32 a/c
Globe and Mail, Jun 26
ReplyDeleteThe Harper government [in Canada] is pressing pause on a decision to buy new jet fighters, including whether to purchase Lockheed Martin’s F-35 Lightning II without holding a competition, because it feels ministers need more information on other options before selecting a course of action.
The Government of Canada are probably quite right to take a long hard look at this. I suspect they don't have the full range of experience and expertise in defence aquisition that we posess here in the UK. Indeed, their purchase of the 4 ex-RN 'Upholder' class has proved to be a very unhappy experience, which I'm sorry to say has been largely self-inflicted due to their reluctance to accept the full suite of training and optimisation offered to them. As for the F35, this latest incident will be looked at very closely. In the Aviation world the risk factors will be looked at very closely and a risk register will be scrutinised and a fact based decision based on empirical evidence will form the basis of any decision with regards to a go/no go. This is causing no appreciabe level of hysteria within the military community here and is about where we expected to be at this gate in the programme.
ReplyDeleteAETC Sharing Info On Fire Damaged F-35A; F-35Bs Resuming Flight By Colin Clark on June 27, 2014
ReplyDeletehttp://breakingdefense.com/2014/06/aetc-sharing-info-on-fire-damaged-f-35a-f-35bs-resuming-flight/
"scientists and flight engineers can kiss my ass." - so nice to know we have a 'real' expert in the room now. All those combined thousands of years by experts in their felids count for nothing against the all powerful Sol'….opps, sorry, was laughing so hard, I spilt my coffee!
ReplyDeleteThe avionics suite has proved to be problematic and because of data-bus issues is somewhere south of that carried by both the F18 and the RAF Typhoon. In all other aspects the MOD were really quite favourable towards this aircraft but the French proved unable to meet the full specification. Unfortunate really as it would have tied in nicely with the French build of PA2 which was a build under licence of the QE class. Luckily, they paid for the rights in full before cancelling the project. Much to the delight of the treasury. weight loss calculator time to lose
ReplyDelete