I see it's marked as Brazilian Airforce, so must have been during the test phase lost to Gripen ... Another case of politically/financially motivated procurement decision. Saab must be happy though, even if they turn out to be more and more a fighter plane "rental company" ;-)
I am Brazilian and I think for us and a very dear hunter and better to have many more with a cheaper cost ja that Brazil intends to buy 100, sorry google translator sucks
I think I understand what you mean: Gripen being "fit for purpose" based on cost-effectiveness ... I'm an Infantry man myself so not qualified enough to pass judgement on that, but you might be right.
JAS 39 is modern and effective fighter, cost-effectiveness is also major factor. I must say that I envy Brazilians, this is really a good deal and.
And that pic is photoshoped, element of marketing. I may be mistaken but only SAAB made a paint job on one of Grippen with big Brazilian flag on real plane not only digital pic like Dassault.
pure photoshop really think the U.S. does not want to help us but the French are crap and Russians do not support I would have su-35 but he's too expensive to maintain and the Russians suspect ummmmmm
Why wouldnt anyone buy the Rafale. Its not the diplomatic piece of crap like the Eurofighter. Its not percieved as a poor mans F-35/Sukhoi like the JAS-39, and it doesnt come with the finicky politicians dictating sanctions and terms of tech. like the F-16/18. If you need Liberation from all these limitations that other countries shackle you with, get the Rafale. The french will even throw a AESA radar to sweeten the deal, albiet with tough negotiations. Its either that or something made in China and assembled in Pakistan.................a by word for quality.
I am sure the Brazilians have made a very carefull and considerate decision on the JAS-39, the economics and end usage pattern for which they bought the aircraft are sound.
P.S- when i mean Diplomatic piece of crap, let me clarify...............Imagine conducting negotiations with multiple governments over the continuation of spare parts in case of a war. You might just be able to bribe BAE and british politicians especially if you are a commonwealth country, but try replicating those same efforts with the Germans and their parliament which also has veto powers over weapon exports. The day they passed over supplying Leopard 2 tanks to Saudi Arabia.....you got a perfect example of how snooty they can get over weapon exports.
You know there is a one big reason why Rafale always loose competitions. It's not price, it's not complication of machine, it's not that it's bad machine. Is just about that single main reason...
When USA sell planes they add a possibility to maintenance and repair them in your own country. When SAAB sell JAS 39 they also give you that possibility and even give you license to product them on site. When Dassault sell you a Rafale... with every one fraking thing that is broken you need to pack a fighter on the ship and send it to France. Because French will not give you rights to service them on site, every overhaul, modification, major and even medium class repairs can be done only in Dessault factory in France.
So when you notice that with every bloody problem you need to ship out your fighter to France, no sir... we will pick other plane.
Well, with the deal we are brokering with dassualt, these aircraft will be servised and maintained in India itself. We usually keep large inventories of spare parts in case of sanctions and other stuff. Also, i have it from a decent source that the AESA radar will also be made in India. Whether it is made in India or Assembled in India, that remains to be seen. But in the negotiations we are really pushing for full AESA tech transfer from the french. Even if that does not happen there is always the Russian AESA radar being developed for the joint Su-50 aircraft.
Also, the relaxation value of knowing that the French rarely put weapons sanctions on you. That was the main cause for both us and the Israelis to buy early Mirage aircraft from them. That and the fact that those mirages were pretty decent.
"Also, the relaxation value of knowing that the French rarely put weapons sanctions on you. That was the main cause for both us and the Israelis to buy early Mirage aircraft from them. That and the fact that those mirages were pretty decent."
well this seems not true anymore... the french wilted on the mistral deal
The Brazilians made a huge mistake not buying the Super Hornets. For pretty much the same price of a half American Gripen they wouldn't have a more capable airplane. According to Erick Palmer, the SH scores 20 to 1 against the aggressors F-16.
I don't think so. As the RAAF air commander mentioned, the Russian and Chinese airplanes are not at the same level as the occidental fighters in terms of sensors, electronics and specially engines. Better to have a partnership with the big chief Boeing than with mini Saab or Sukhoys..Brazil operates American F-5 any way, so the SH was the natural step to follow. Even the SH was the favorite of the Brazilians pilots.
I see it's marked as Brazilian Airforce, so must have been during the test phase lost to Gripen ... Another case of politically/financially motivated procurement decision. Saab must be happy though, even if they turn out to be more and more a fighter plane "rental company" ;-)
ReplyDeleteI am Brazilian and I think for us and a very dear hunter
ReplyDeleteand better to have many more with a cheaper cost ja that Brazil intends to buy 100, sorry google translator sucks
I think I understand what you mean: Gripen being "fit for purpose" based on cost-effectiveness ... I'm an Infantry man myself so not qualified enough to pass judgement on that, but you might be right.
DeleteJAS 39 is modern and effective fighter, cost-effectiveness is also major factor. I must say that I envy Brazilians, this is really a good deal and.
DeleteAnd that pic is photoshoped, element of marketing. I may be mistaken but only SAAB made a paint job on one of Grippen with big Brazilian flag on real plane not only digital pic like Dassault.
pure photoshop really think the U.S. does not want to help us but the French are crap and Russians do not support I would have su-35 but he's too expensive to maintain and the Russians suspect ummmmmm
DeleteWhy wouldnt anyone buy the Rafale. Its not the diplomatic piece of crap like the Eurofighter. Its not percieved as a poor mans F-35/Sukhoi like the JAS-39, and it doesnt come with the finicky politicians dictating sanctions and terms of tech. like the F-16/18. If you need Liberation from all these limitations that other countries shackle you with, get the Rafale. The french will even throw a AESA radar to sweeten the deal, albiet with tough negotiations. Its either that or something made in China and assembled in Pakistan.................a by word for quality.
ReplyDeleteI am sure the Brazilians have made a very carefull and considerate decision on the JAS-39, the economics and end usage pattern for which they bought the aircraft are sound.
DeleteP.S- when i mean Diplomatic piece of crap, let me clarify...............Imagine conducting negotiations with multiple governments over the continuation of spare parts in case of a war. You might just be able to bribe BAE and british politicians especially if you are a commonwealth country, but try replicating those same efforts with the Germans and their parliament which also has veto powers over weapon exports. The day they passed over supplying Leopard 2 tanks to Saudi Arabia.....you got a perfect example of how snooty they can get over weapon exports.
DeleteYou know there is a one big reason why Rafale always loose competitions. It's not price, it's not complication of machine, it's not that it's bad machine. Is just about that single main reason...
DeleteWhen USA sell planes they add a possibility to maintenance and repair them in your own country. When SAAB sell JAS 39 they also give you that possibility and even give you license to product them on site. When Dassault sell you a Rafale... with every one fraking thing that is broken you need to pack a fighter on the ship and send it to France. Because French will not give you rights to service them on site, every overhaul, modification, major and even medium class repairs can be done only in Dessault factory in France.
So when you notice that with every bloody problem you need to ship out your fighter to France, no sir... we will pick other plane.
Well, with the deal we are brokering with dassualt, these aircraft will be servised and maintained in India itself. We usually keep large inventories of spare parts in case of sanctions and other stuff. Also, i have it from a decent source that the AESA radar will also be made in India. Whether it is made in India or Assembled in India, that remains to be seen. But in the negotiations we are really pushing for full AESA tech transfer from the french. Even if that does not happen there is always the Russian AESA radar being developed for the joint Su-50 aircraft.
DeleteAlso, the relaxation value of knowing that the French rarely put weapons sanctions on you. That was the main cause for both us and the Israelis to buy early Mirage aircraft from them. That and the fact that those mirages were pretty decent.
Deletebut they spent the source code for the exocet ae england fuck
DeleteMaybe they start to notice what they frak up in all those competitions and try to fix it now.
Delete"Also, the relaxation value of knowing that the French rarely put weapons sanctions on you. That was the main cause for both us and the Israelis to buy early Mirage aircraft from them. That and the fact that those mirages were pretty decent."
Deletewell this seems not true anymore... the french wilted on the mistral deal
The Brazilians made a huge mistake not buying the Super Hornets.
ReplyDeleteFor pretty much the same price of a half American Gripen they wouldn't have a more capable airplane. According to Erick Palmer, the SH scores 20 to 1 against the aggressors F-16.
http://elpdefensenews.blogspot.ca/2014/06/raaf-boss-testimony-eliminates-need-for.html
the error and not having a partnership with the Russians as india and venezuela
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteI don't think so. As the RAAF air commander mentioned, the Russian and Chinese airplanes are not at the same level as the occidental fighters in terms of sensors, electronics and specially engines. Better to have a partnership with the big chief Boeing than with mini Saab or Sukhoys..Brazil operates American F-5 any way, so the SH was the natural step to follow. Even the SH was the favorite of the Brazilians pilots.
Deletewww.youtube.com/watch?v=3gX_vZB-2nE&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Thats when the French and Israelis come in with their Russian equipment compliant avionics and electronics package upgrade.
DeleteI wonder if Kieth Alexander would have turned every Superhornet into a SuperSpyRecorderMicCam.
Deletewww.youtube.com/watch?v=n--uuYnhkyw&feature=youtube_gdata_player
ReplyDelete