I've been monitoring the situation in Iraq and it was a predictable outcome.
The Shiites have excluded Sunni's from the govt and they're pissed. So what do they do? That minority of people has a bit of a fighting spirit so they got fed up and are now on the attack.
This is instructive.
The tech of force is irrelevant. The size of a force is irrelevant. What counts is the determination of the fighters.
The USMC once understood this.
Now, the Iraqi govt is asking the US to intervene with airstrikes! I'm laughing my ass off at this. The Iraqi's didn't want to sign a status of forces agreement and now they're begging for help. Love it. I hope Obama tells them to pound sand. They deserve the civil war that is coming their way.
NOTE: Monitoring this situation and a talking head just said the magic words...regional war! The Kurds have seized a city and are looking to consolidate their stronghold (the dream of a Kurdish nation should scare the shit out of the Turks!), the Sunni's are approaching Baghdad and that will supposedly cause Iran to act. This is what happens when you have amateurs in charge. The world is burning. Also, has anyone noticed how this administration is lurching from crisis to crisis? The lack of planning, the inability to "take issues off the table" and the overall ineptitude is stunning!
The Shiites have excluded Sunni's from the govt and they're pissed. So what do they do? That minority of people has a bit of a fighting spirit so they got fed up and are now on the attack.
This is instructive.
The tech of force is irrelevant. The size of a force is irrelevant. What counts is the determination of the fighters.
The USMC once understood this.
Now, the Iraqi govt is asking the US to intervene with airstrikes! I'm laughing my ass off at this. The Iraqi's didn't want to sign a status of forces agreement and now they're begging for help. Love it. I hope Obama tells them to pound sand. They deserve the civil war that is coming their way.
NOTE: Monitoring this situation and a talking head just said the magic words...regional war! The Kurds have seized a city and are looking to consolidate their stronghold (the dream of a Kurdish nation should scare the shit out of the Turks!), the Sunni's are approaching Baghdad and that will supposedly cause Iran to act. This is what happens when you have amateurs in charge. The world is burning. Also, has anyone noticed how this administration is lurching from crisis to crisis? The lack of planning, the inability to "take issues off the table" and the overall ineptitude is stunning!
The question is a simple one, is the risk to American service personnel lives worth it
ReplyDeleteI suspect the general answer is no
without a doubt its no. the Iraqi's made there bed now they get to lie in it. pass the popcorn. we should sit this one out.
DeleteI wonder if we have front row seats to watch this civil war before they beg us to help clean up their mess
Deletethey're already crying for help. FUCK Maliki! eat shit and die son! i can't wait to watch that stupid bastard hung in their version of "victory" square.
DeleteNo, Nien, Non, Nichts, Nyet no way, and Hell No.
DeleteI hope they drag maliki through the streets, burn his ast and hang him from a bridge overpass to feed the flies.
I hope they dig up some chemical weapons and really go to killing with snack bars and glee!
Little point in intervening now with Iraq completely fucked over by a new dictactor and violence at exploding war-time levels.
DeleteI do feel sorry for the innocent and the political prisoners, tho...
Iraq was never 100% stable, but it is interesting that we, once again, face a Boolean over Iraq; re-fight the war (again) or let Iraq "go." Then you if weigh in the Obama admin's quiet arming of radicalized Islamic forces, some of which in Syria, you begin to wonder how much of a surprise this really is.
ReplyDeleteTen years ago if someone said "Islam is incompatible with Western government" they would have been called a racist. Now it appears to an undisputed fact as all the nation building we have done comes crumbling down because the "evil doers" have more heart than the civilized.
I predict a week of excuse making for the leadership vacuum (in both countries), a quasi hard-hitting story in the NYT (maybe some pics of refugees), followed by a carefully scripted teleprompter speech that amounts to nothing. The American People have been stripped of the will to fight this war again--and I question the wisdom at this point as well.
agreed. democracy and middle east govts do not go together. this thing is going to collapse...we all know it but no one wants to say it.
DeleteI wouldn't say that Islam is completely In-Compatible with western democracy. India has 150-180 million muslims in westminister style parliamentary democracy. Then there is also Malaysia and to some extent.....Indonesia. Kuwait I think also has a democracy with female parliamentarians as well. Then there is always Turkey. Sure, muslims all over the world have some compatibility issues with democracies....even in the above mentioned countries, but so did the Ku Klux Klan and those Greek Neo Nazis as well. I believe every Radical element, regardless of religion will always be pissed off at existing Govt. Setups.
DeleteNo not stripped of will, just stripped of give a shit.
DeleteAll those deaths maimed men and women, phuc Iraq let them burn.
Air strike intervention is far cheaper and simpler than trying to take back the captured cities later.
ReplyDeletewhy even do an airstrike. these bastards aren't worth the blowback from the bad publicity of something going wrong.
DeleteSo do you want to turn Iraq into second Afghanistan to harbor the next-generation of Al Qaeda training camps like Afghanistan back in 2001? And back to invading Iraq to clear ISIS out all over again?
DeleteIf not, then the US must intervene now with air strikes.
slowman: What and have the world, the french, the UN and Cindy Sheehan all whining and bitchin' again?
DeleteThe hell with that.
No aid, no air strikes, no no fly zone and no boots on the ground.
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2014/04/28/140428fa_fact_filkins?currentPage=all
ReplyDeleteThis is a great read on what happened in Iraq.
i'll take a look. thanks.
DeleteI'm all for a limited air strike........... we have lost 4500 good men and women and spent about a trillion dollars on their worthless asses....................100 megaton should just about do it I think.
ReplyDeletewell hell if thats the kind of strike you're talking about then i'm all for it. bomb them till they glow.
DeleteBomb them till they glow......
DeleteNow Solomon is thinking on the lines of a Islamic Fundamentalist.
Sarabvir: No that's Marine fundamentalist thinking and had the left allowed it Iraq would still be glowing from Gulf war I 100mt, Hmmmm ya think that's enough Hacksaw?
DeleteIraq is only a hellhole because we (the USA) turned it into one during a misguided war. Previous to that, Iraq had the highest standard of living of any Middle-Eastern country, and was at relative peace internally.
DeleteThere may be nothing that we can do to 'fix' that fuck-up, other than watch to see who wins this contest. But let's not beat our chests and act all self-rightous about it. Real people are dying over there.
where are you pulling that misinformation from? the Iraqi's have been living in pain for a long time now. they had a 8 year war with Iran that saw them destitute. they had a small oil boom but they have never led the region in standard of living. they've been so far behind the power curve for so long that to state that its a modern society is pure bullshit.
DeleteZD...... 100MT might do for a starter, then, after the smoke settles, and they raise their head up, ask'em if their ready to talk peace.........or do they feel lucky.
DeleteIran as the wild card in this. They are shia and realize that ISIS is a threat to the whole region.
ReplyDeletei'm calling BS on the talk about ISIS. i never heard of the clowns before this episode exploded on the front pages. i'll have to do a couple of Google searches but they can't have been around that long. it seems like some type of artificial construct to me.
DeleteSolomon, ISIS has been around since early 2013 in Syria, but they were playing Second fiddle to Al-Nusra
DeleteThey are too radical for Al-Qaeda and got booted out
So the radical militants that we've supported in Syria are now spilling over into Iraq... And oh look... they just looted half a billion dollars (that we probably gave them). This just gets better and better.
DeleteDoes anyone in this administration have a real plan? Because you can bet your ass that Putin, Assad, and the Mullahs in Iran do. It's like watching the Globetrotters play against the local stooge team.
I dont know about Al-Nusra but yes, as David said, these people are waay more radical. And from the looks of it, a hybrid terrorist organization. Hybrid because if left un-apposed, they are just 1 step away from establishing a full on Government. If only that secular Mass Murderer Saddam was alive and kicking today. Al-Baghdadi would have been quietly picked up at night by secret police and would have spent his entire life dead or confined to the dungeons even before getting famous.
DeleteFear not my fellow bloggers, the Kurds and their Peshmerga are the descendants of Ancient Assyrians. We all know what the Assyrians are capable of and what they have achieved historically. If you do not know that Google the Assyrian Empire. Then also google the Sythians and the Parthians, Achaemenid Empire as well. If you get to understand how this region has been governed for the past 2000 years or so, you'll see this recent uprising as just a small skirmish. Also.............Those Kurds are here to KICK ASS. Finally. The Northern Alliance equivalent of Iraq.
ReplyDeleteI pray to the War Gods for an Iraq that resembles current Syria, all bloody, fly blown and stinking.
DeleteMaybe the middle east will nuke itself!
I also pray to the war gods for an Iraq that resembles syria. A country where women were not forced to wear Burkas. Where Christians were also allowed to practise their faith, unlike a major US ally Saudi Arabia. And also a country untouched by American Freedom so to speak. If only my prayers could come true. Zebra Dun, our prayers are the same........though the results may be different.
DeleteIrony in all this is that US dismantled iraq ,and one of the lies at the time was that Sadam had links to Al-qaeda .Now you have to aknowledge that Maliki was put in power by US not iraqis and his policy created the conditions that enable ISIS (Al-qaeda alffiliate) to gain a strong foot hold in Iraq. Something similar happened with the taliban in Afghanstan and will happen in Ukraine . Isn't it time to stop medling around and dumping piles of shit all over the world.
ReplyDeleteKudos, Finally....some common sense.
DeleteThat one last line..... Isn't it time to stop medling around and dumping piles of shit all over the world.
i am always amazed but never surprised at the blame America crowd. thats why so many Americans are ready to say fuck the world and the sorry bastards that live in. we're damned if we do and damned if we don't.
Deletethats why i'm so anxious to watch Iraq burn....a British construct that was only maintained due to the actions of a madman. its gonna be fun to watch the refugees, witness the beheadings and know for a fact that no other nation on this planet can do anything to stop except for the US. the Brits are totally inadequate and have destroyed their military from top to bottom. India can barely handle 3rd rate primitives across their border. China is a paper dragon and we're the ones proping up their economy.
FTW!!!! fuck the world. let it burn.
I understand your thinking but in the end of the day this mess was created by Bush cabinet not by some raghead in Tikrit or Mosul ,at the time of invasion of iraq some a-hole decided that disbanding iraqi army and criminalising baath party made sense ,but look where things end up .Iraqis can only feel sorry that Sadam is gone ,as living in dictatorship beats living in warzone any day.
DeleteIn contrary to what you are led to believe world would burn less without constant inteventions by mayor powers.
As for US stoping this thing ,fat chance we have seen time and time again that US can destroy but so far track record for building up is poor at best. War on terror? Iraq ended up total fu*kup ,Afghanistan will follow the same route but even faster and in addition Pakistan is on a brink due to afghan fallout..
Man i never taught i would see Al-Qaeda riding in on Abrams tanks LOL
Yeah, finally some clear thinking from Mr. T.
DeleteSolomon, I don't blame America. I blame it's government. From Bush Sr. all the way up to Obama, our foreign policy has been a disaster.
Why you should enjoy any nation 'burning' is beyond me. That's the kind of environment that creates real terrorists and extremists. To think that the USA can stop this civil war is deluded. It only paused long enough for us to tuck-tail because we were passing out bribes to everyone with a militia to command.
I once did write a post here about those Zombie like Mad Mullahs. Offcourse that was in relation to Pakistan. Didnt know that that shit was about to happen in Iraq. And with such ferocity. If you Americans wont mind, give us some of those A-10's you are inches away from scrapping. We pay cash and we pay on time, like a Lannister.
DeleteThe real insanity: the Americans are going to step up aid to the Syrian "rebels," many of whom are also fighting in Iraq against the government that the Americans installed!
ReplyDeleteWell, cmon the US went in there for the search of "WMD"s
ReplyDeleteIt showed that conquering a middle eastern country during spring ( wich happens to be under an arms embargo for more than 10 years ) is pretty easy...
Nation building exercises however are not... So instead of complaining of the Frankenstein you have created better send some MQ-9s there quick.
After that is what UAVs in uncontested airspace are for..
And i am saying all this with no offence or sarcasm
The invasion of Iraq had nothing to do with WMD's and everything with shoring up the right flank of the attack in Afghanistan.
DeleteFor your info, a WMD is a weapon of mass destruction, a single hand grenade is a weapon of mass destruction a 1/2 lb of hand grenade is a WMD.
Get over it, it's the past and now the future is coming and hell is coming with it.
And if we don't pay attention to the mistakes of the past, how are we supposed to avoid more fuck-ups like Iraq? Which was borne of a British fuck-up dating back to the first world war.
DeleteIraq had nothing to do with Al-Q or Afganistan. It was a target of opportunity that appealed to our strategic energy interests, Israel's territorial ambitions, and Dubya's daddy issues.
Interestingly, why do you call him Dubya ?
DeleteWonder-boy Petraeus frequently said that Iraq was fragile and reversible. His supposedly successful surge wasn't actually successful, because its goal was to provide enough security for reconciliation which never happened no thanks to Maliki.
ReplyDeleteThe Kurds in the north should be all right. They have a strong military, plenty of money coming in from oil sales, and good relations with Turkey (destination of the oil).
Down south Iraq needs help and Iran, Iraq's new ally, thank you very much Uncle Samuel, is providing it.
The Sunni and Shia had their differences back under Hussein, but they did manage to get along, lived on the same street and intermarried etc. The US military occupation and accompanying turmoil and loss of security changed all that. Instability 'R Us. It's the same elsewhere.
ReplyDeleteno without Sadaam they chose to unleash death squads to purify their neighborhoods. long story short, once again the US gets blamed for the idiocy of madmen and murderers.
DeleteDon: I once had a conversation with a group of liberal's who said "We should not fight these people, we should get them to fight each other for us."
DeleteI'd say that liberal plan is working.
Instability is fine when it's their instability, 9/11 phuc with the best, die like the rest.
I hope this war spreads throughout the middle east and kills millions.
Yup, Ima Baaaad Boy.
How many people a year did Saddam torture/kill? Because at least half a million Iraqis died during our 'liberation' of that country, and their lives are clearly not better now.
DeleteNor are ours.
Yes, but with Saddams killings, Apart from the Kurdish Chemical Massacre, most of Saddams killings were behind closed doors where Christina Amanpour and Maureen Dowd and the rest of CNN etc couldnt poke their nose. This AL-Baghdadi character on the hand wants a full on media circus. He wants to make a statement.
DeleteAs God is my witness I try to keep hate out of my heart, hate being the acid that corrodes the vessel carrying it, BUT, for Muslim's, Iraqi's and Islam in general, well, I hate their l'il pea pickin' hearts.
ReplyDeleteI wish them,
"Bonne chance et bonne mise à mort!"
Do a bang up good job this time, be thorough and slay each other with Elan' and Zeal and have a Blessed day.
I guess you're not alone, which is why Iraq threw the Americans out.
DeleteAt least under Saddam, you knew the rules. Phuck with Hussein interests and die. Stay off their radar and live. Pure Stalinist rule. Harsh, but fairly predictable. People might not have liked it but they knew where they stood. Now its a CCF.
DeleteI was there in '90 and '91 and I know why we stopped. Iraq, as it was, needed a harsh SOB to keep it together and provide a counterweight to Iran.
I could never figure out W's plan and what the long term goals were (unless it was to totally destabilize the region). Success depended on so many assumptions that to call it a plan is an insult to the Three Stooges. All it did was cause differences to simmer and now the time has come for everyone to pay the piper.
Perhaps this is the war that should have happened long ago. We will probably get three states out of this and perhaps the killing can stop for awhile.
I feel under no circumstances should we get involved. in any way.
"Air strikes?!" " I'm sorry Al, I can't hear you. The NBA finals are on. Let me get back to you in a few weeks."
This is really their fight. I'm sorry for the death and destruction that will come of it but as they say, we just don't have a dog in this fight anymore.
WE were there and i concur. the problem with Dubya and Obama is the same. they both lived in a fantasy world when it came to foreign policy. Bush Jr thought that he could sow the seeds of democracy by remaking Iraq into an American style state. Obama believes that he can talk and reason with anyone and that there is no such thing as perceived weakness.
Deleteboth theories lack any foundation in fact, both led or are leading to disastrous consequences and we'll all pay the price for the ignorance of four failed terms as president (two each).
as far as the Iraqi's suffering and me being sorry? i can't lie. i don't feel a thing. it doesn't upset me, seeing children as refugees doesn't move me and the only thing that could have me pounding walls is if the US decides to spend one more cent or seea US service members lose his life in trying to help people that will not appreciate the effort.
is that cold?
probably but its the truth.
People that don't appreciate the effort that is a good one.
DeleteIt doesnt mater what effort it took or how god the intentions were ,but the end result which left people off worse than Sadam could ever..
Sectarian violence is a direct consequence of state being dimantled , altough these devides can be present for hundrets of years ,its the state failiure that triggers them to turn bloody
Belive me even the societies in the west would in such case se people spliting along into what ever fractions are on position of influence and power and turn on each other in a dime.
''When state authority crumbles, individuals not only lose the protection normally supplied by public offices, but are also freed from institutional restraints. In response, they often seek safety, profit or both. Their motives become more complex than when they could depend on the state ''
Again another thing that we see time and time again with apointed figureheads ,they are often exiles . And people hate exiles that come back mainly for power and money.
''In 2006, Phebe Marr’s research suggested that only 26.8 percent of Iraq’s new ruling elite were “insiders,” those who has stayed in the county under Baathist rule.[34] It was thus the politicians, returning from many years of exile, who were primarily responsible for deploying sectarian rhetoric. They used this language to divided up the polity in ways that would maximize their votes and influence and minimize the accusation that, after long periods of absence, they did not represent their own constituencies. - See more at: http://pomeps.org/2014/03/19/seeking-to-explain-the-rise-of-sectarianism-in-the-middle-east-the-case-study-of-iraq/#sthash.kIqCBB4u.dpuf
Why are these terrorists wearing black ?......Havnt they learned from the Bedoin tribes to wear White Flowing robes ?.....Black color absorbs sunlight, thereby heating up. While White reflects off most sunlight and the flowing loose cloth helps in air circulation. Do we have to show them Lawrence of Arabia again ?
ReplyDeleteWell , let the MQ-1s and MQ-9s do they're magic and everything shoud be fine.
ReplyDelete