via International Business Times.
This is about to get nasty.
Diplomacy has failed. People are grabbing their guns.
More than 15,000 Russian troops have amassed along the border with Ukraine as the Pentagon said Friday it appears Moscow is about to transfer “heavy caliber multiple rocket systems” to pro-Russia separatists.A division of troops massing on the border? Supplying the rebels with tanks, IFV/APCs?
Reuters cited the U.S. ambassador to NATO in a tweet reporting that 15,000 Russian troops are on the Ukrainian border. The news wire service didn’t offer further details about the deployment.
The development came as the Pentagon said a transfer of “heavy caliber multiple rocket systems” from Russia to pro-Russia rebels in Ukraine was “imminent.”
Russia is also reportedly arming the rebels with tanks, armored vehicles and other high-powered weapons, according to U.S. officials who spoke to the New York Times. Andriy Lysenko, a Ukrainian military spokesman, also told the paper that government forces were taking more fire from the Russian side of the border. The spokesman said Ukraine responded by shooting down three Russian drones.
This is about to get nasty.
Diplomacy has failed. People are grabbing their guns.
Now can we officially call it a Russian invasion?
ReplyDeleteAs long as you take every leaked rumor and tweet as a gospel . So far 'US officials' told many lies and and yet most media take it as credible info . Remember little greeen men in Krimea and Donetsk (aka Specnaz colonel from Chechniya which turned out to be airsofters and reenactors) ,remember the mr silencer posing with Ar15 clone aleged russian spetsnaz turned out to be local hunter and air rifle shooter ,and yes the lie about the modern Ak74m and 100 series ak's suposedly supplied by the Russians (turned out to be soviet era soviet ukraine issue AK74 /6P20 model) ,or satelite photos of Russian build up that turned out to be couple of years old. An yes those T-64 tanks that were suposedlly driven over from russian border again turned out to be Ukrainian issue T-64BV and the bullshit train continues jet is still taken as gospel again and again.
DeleteRead couple of articles from people with some intimate knowledge of russian gear and tactics not only PR guys in Pentagon
http://www.suomensotilas.fi/en/artikkelit/easter-bunnies-are-hobbyist-and-reservists
Mr.T you notice that President Putin admit that "Green Men" were indeed soldiers of Russian Federation did you?
DeleteYes and the issue off green men in Krimea was not disputed by anyone but putin in an interviev, green men east edition was a completely different story and i am no fan of Putin (a Kleptocrat with an inferiority complex) ,did you ever get an admition from the other side. Plus things in Krimea were crystal clear compared to all the bullshit that is flying around about the east ukraine situation.
DeleteIn the end you do realize that we have a unelected goverment(Kiev) waging full blown war against its own citizens ,while in reality only real option was to move towards some sort of federalisation of Ukraine. Its sort of ironic old masters in Kiev didn't use force against Maidan(a protest like that anywhere in Europe or US would have been broken up long before it came to critical condition yust look up a typical G7 or similar event and see how protests are handled) ,while new masters of Kiev were incredibly quick to send tanks against east ukrainian locals. Problem now is that they are loosing lots of men ,but you know what they say good war never hurt anyone except the poor bastards that get killed .In this case men of Ukrainian 72nd Mechanized brigade and 79th Airmobile brigade that were decimated http://bmpd.livejournal.com/932039.html
will everyone PLEASE start providing links to news stories to back up many of the statements being made!
Deletei'm so confused right now i can't see straight. i've lost count of the number of theories, conspiracy stories and etc...thats being placed in this thread.
green men? i'm assuming that Russian Special Ops. Maidan protest? never heard of it. US sponsor ship of the revolt in Ukraine? never heard of it. EU support of the same? never heard of it.
we need a serious fact from fiction thread.
Solomon here you have US sponsorship
Deletehttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2524179/John-McCain-tells-Ukraine-protesters-We-support-just-cause.html
here the EU politics eating on the conflict
http://www.euractiv.com/video/guy-verhofstadt-speaking-protesters-maidan-square-kiev-48368
Here the link to the provocateurs, it is an estonian ministry, that means it comes from one of the most anti-russian country in europe.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2573923/Estonian-Foreign-Ministry-confirms-authenticity-leaked-phone-call-discussing-Kiev-snipers-shot-protesters-possibly-hired-Ukraines-new-leaders.html
i'm speechless. don't tell me Neo-Cons have their fingerprints on another disaster? i'm going to have to go through this. more to come...from me on this. your evidence is compelling. EXTREMELY compelling.
Deleteand I must say thanks to you too, your posts on the gaza conflict is improving my view of Israel.
DeleteP.S. As European I'm not seeing this conflict as a big risk, the division of Ukraine is something really old, unluckly it is what I call a Pillow state (another example of this category is Bolivia created by Bolivar for this reason) so conflicts are inevitable until we get Russia back in Europe(but for this we need them to stop thinking they are a superpower), for any educated european (at least IMHO) a europe withouth Tolstoy and Dostoevskij isn't europe.
the danger isn't really the conflict. that is workable...even at this late messy stage. the issue is what started this whole thing. the economy. we have to wonder what the end state will be. i gather that many in Ukraine wanted to become part of the EU but couldn't realize that their economy couldn't afford it. Russia has in essence broken the Ukrainian economy to the point of where it can't be salvaged.
Deletewhat scares the shit out of me is the thought that a collapse in ukraine will have knock on effects because the EU will be asked to bail them out. internationalist in the US will want to get us involved but the US people won't have it. they'll try to do a backdoor loan through the UN but that won't fool anyone because its been done before so you have the collapse. you have markets going into free fall. you have Italy, Spain, Greece, Portugal and others going under....and you have a world wide recession bordering on depression.
and all this can happen in a matter of months and EVEN WORSE...i don't see anyone doing anything to address the economic issues that are facing that country...and its in our face. soldiers are talking about not getting paid while in combat? say they don't have any food? this is an economic war, not only military conflict.
First don't worry too much about Pigs countries, this is an old ranking but it should be still the same:
Deletehttp://business.time.com/2012/05/23/which-advanced-economy-has-the-most-total-debt/#slide/all/?&_suid=140633739201802847877375315875
Second' ECB still hasn't used expansive measures like the quantitative easing that has been used in other countries like Japan or USA. We still have that card meanwhile you don't, have you ever seen a soccer "contropiede"?
Third, for how wrecked Ukraine economy is it has still a lot of strategic resources, specially grain&metals needed by Russia, plus Ukraine is the chinese backdoor in europe so wait helps from them, they bought russian tech through ukraine. As soon the TAP will be built and energy autonomy will be achieved by europe the ukranians will have to solve their problems without anymore excuses and stop voting idiotic oligarchs.
4- the ukraine coming out of the conflict will try to enter in europe, we won't let that happen but I bet they will start pursuing the objectives that brussel will set them and this will help a lot their economy because they won't have any excuses to not do reforms.
5- Ukraine gdp in 2012 was only 126 billions euros against the 13k of the european union, it is a mere 1% of our gdp.
I forgot to write the most important thing, yes we will have to pay for them, germans have already learnt the lesson when they didn't lend that one billion at the beggining of greek crisis.
Delete15th Motorized Brigade the main "peacekeepers" of Russian Federation are on the move. You think this is coincidence?
ReplyDeleteIf it does get serious it is only because their are no grown ups running the show on our side. Obama winner of the Nobel Peace Prize, wtf.
ReplyDeleteWell, lets look at the Order of Battle
ReplyDeleteThe EUs policy is to shout loudly and carry a small stick.
The UKs policy is talk loudly at everyone but it only has one medium stick thats busy at the moment
That leaves the US.
Which has a fuck load of fires to put out in south america, west africa, east africa, the middle east, and the far east, all kept simmering because it can smash the first one to boil, but once that happens, all bets are off.
Just who exactly is prepared to go knuckles bare against Russia in Ukraine? Who is capable of it? Logistically it makes Yugoslavia look easy, and that set off Stryker!
And who will come out to play as soon as the US ready reserves are deployed?
My country (Romania) has the T-55's and BTR 60's ready.....yeeeea...............
Deleteyour country has well trained troops that i;'m positive will give a better account of themselves than the Ukrainian forces. it not all about the newest hardware. only recently has the USMC been on a shiny new kick and made its reputation taking Army and Navy hand me downs and using it to great effect.
Deletegive me 100 lions in old gear against 10,000 sheep in new stuff and i'll win every battle.
Nice to hear that, thank you, we had about 20-30k rotating in Afghanistan + the SOF doing other stuff, individually or mixed teams with the US.
DeleteIt's a shame tho, we had so many oportunities lost because of politics...we built a few ATMOS then we stopped and didn't put them in use, we stopped the aqusition of 700 Piranha because of funky technical problems (turret wouldn't shoot when hatch opened and i think some floating problems), a cooperation with the germans to make a mix of leo 2 and t72..and many other things that would give us many more chances...
Otherwise, good we have the mountain arch, we could resume to sneaky "taliban" tactics.
Anyway, i hope those ( 12 second-hand..jeez...) F-16 arrive sooner...
Does Romania have the logistical backing required to fight a war 500 miles from home?
DeleteHow many shells does it keep in storage and how much money does it have sloshing around to buy more? How long does a gear box on a T55 last and how many spares do they have?
The same must be asked of all of EUrope.
@TrT
Deletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equipment_of_the_Romanian_Armed_Forces
i'm not worried about ammunition and logistics for 500 miles, regarding money/reserves, if we turn 2-3 politicians upside down we might be able to get 1k Merkava IV's..
We still have 100 tons of gold left in moscow...
Hey, maybe we can go there together M.C? We also have some things in Moscow, like royal regalia and lot's of art... "liberated" by Soviets and never returned to us. ;)
DeleteShit's getting real.
ReplyDeleteFeckless dictator-appeasing actions?
Meet horrible predictable consequences, continental meltdown edition.
John Kerry and Chuck Hagel, not to mention the Incompetent in Chief, are about to learn how FDR, Cordell Hull, and Henry Stimson (all vastly brighter than the current versions) felt at 2PM one clear December Sunday, when their whole world fell apart as they struggled to get their pants from around their ankles.
And if we aren't careful, the two worst outcomes are that
a) we get sucked into this one, or
b) we don't.
Shit's just perception.
DeleteCalm down, have a brew, and see it all as the game it actually is.
The last week they said that 45000 troops were on the border : were are those missing 30000 russian soldiers ?
ReplyDeleteI know at the moment the UK is all talk, but the general population is pretty sick of foreign adventures that have returned no tangible benefit. That being said I have no doubt that when it's backs against the wall time the UK will come out swinging and do what is both morally right and our NATO treaty obligation to our upmost, and deep down you all know it too.
ReplyDeleteSalomon here is one link from Finland in difference to most stuff that is floated around by amateurs and reporters Arto Pulkki is a military profesional with no beef in the game and Finland is in a unique position always aware of the potential Russian threat ,but they are also very knowledgable in terms of russian gear and tactics ,they use a combination of russian and western gear , in any case browse some of his insights that are well educated
ReplyDeletehttp://www.suomensotilas.fi/en/artikkelit/little-green-men-are-different-time?q=en/articles
http://www.suomensotilas.fi/en/responsibility-and-irresponsibility
And the saucy old satelite picts
ReplyDeletehttp://nsnbc.me/2014/04/11/nato-justifies-major-troop-deployment-with-old-satellite-images/
Sol, if the western banksters want to bail out someone on the sly, they’ll just use the Federal Reserve. The US has been secretly bailing out European banks on our dime for years now.
ReplyDeleteAs for whether or not Russia is massing troops for an invasion, we’ve been here before - just a few months back in fact. Is was BS then, and unless I hear someone other than IBT (same owners as Newsweek) or CNN (HAHAHA!!!) pushing it, I see no good reason to get all emotional about stupid propaganda.
NATO wants (hopes) that Russia will commit to direct action so that they can jump in. But that’s not in Putin or Russia’s interests, and Putin (in contrast to Obama) is relatively intelligent and patient. So why would he send the troops in? If he wants to step up the pressure, he’ll just cut Ukraine’s gas.
i can't argue the federal reserve comment at all. as far as news sources, always verify but i get it from many places and will roll with my instincts.
Delete