Thanks for the article Peter...
via Foreign Policy...
What is remarkable is that the major news outlets and "opinion-shapers" are all coalescing around the idea that the F-35 isn't worth the cost.
That is the new danger for the F-35.
via Foreign Policy...
Burying bad news before a long holiday weekend, the Pentagon announced just before 9 p.m. on July 3 that the entire F-35 Joint Strike Fighter fleet was being grounded after a June 23 runway fire at Eglin Air Force Base in Florida.The article itself is unremarkable...
The grounding could not have come at a worse time, especially for the Marine Corps, which had lots of splashy events planned this month for its variant of the next-generation plane, whose costs have soared to an estimated $112 million per aircraft.
Effectively saying that the most expensive warplane in American history is too dangerous to fly is a huge public relations blow for the Pentagon, which has been under fire for years for allowing the plane's costs to increase even as its delivery time continued to slide right. The plane's prime contractor, Lockheed Martin, could also take a hit to its bottom line if the F-35 isn't cleared to fly to the United Kingdom for a pair of high-profile international air shows packed with potential customers. One thing the grounding won't do, however, is derail the F-35, a juggernaut of a program that apparently has enough political top cover to withstand any storm.
What is remarkable is that the major news outlets and "opinion-shapers" are all coalescing around the idea that the F-35 isn't worth the cost.
That is the new danger for the F-35.
Check out Dr. Laird's (SLD Info / Breaking Defense) spin on Breaking Defense this morning: air shows aren't important, reporters are too lazy to go see the plane elsewhere. You know, blame the messenger...
ReplyDeleteWhat a load of horseshit. Laird goes off on how wonderful the F-35 will be once its finally up and running. He ignores 3 incredibly simple points.
Delete1. The F-35 is not up and running, despite 8 years, 100 airframes being built, and billions spent. Even development nightmares like the F-22 and Eurofighter didn't take this long.
2. A no-show at RIAT and Farnborough will result and a loss of support and sales. Especially in Britain and Italy.
3. Taxpayers are going to start demanding action. All this cash dumped into an aircraft that can't take off without exploding or make it across the Atlantic is not good.
Doug, Do you actually read what you are writing? Seriously?? Talk bout horseshit!!!
Deletei'm still waiting for you bullshit meter to spike Scar Lett. the idea that a reasonable individual could be 100% in support of this program and have no doubts or reservations after all that has happened, all the delays, all the downgrades in capabilities/requirements is amazing to me.
Deletethe facts are stark. the issues are plain.
the only reason why this plane continues is because of the connection with jobs and the fact that so much money has been pumped into it.
the reality is that sequestration is here and the US Army, US Navy and even USMC will be forced to make a choice between fantasy advancement that is compromised (the F-35) and real needs that are attainable but being squeezed out because of the latter.
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Delete"the facts are stark. the issues are plain" - true - hence why the F-35 is here to stay for a long, long time despite your laughable rants re "Death Spirals"!
DeleteTrue also that jobs are an important part - or don't you think government/business supporting /creating jobs is important??
Face it Sol' you don't matter! No one who matters gives a damn what you rant on about. Those of us in the industry or in the militaries around the world only ever take any looks at you and your ilk when we feel like a laugh. You're nothing but a comedy act for us.
and thats where you're wrong.
Deleteif i don't matter then why are you so dogged in your "rants"? why is the program office going through the effort of setting up a "support the F-35" website? why have supporters fell back on the only thing the program appears to have going for ...job creation and even that is flimsy. think about it. how many partners can one program have? how many countries can one airplane be built in and the program still be affordable?
yeah. my voice matters. the voice of the other bloggers out there that are slamming this plane matters...this engine fire matters and the death spiral is here.
you've already lost you just don't know it. just like a terrorist that is shot through the head and takes two more steps, the dye is cast. its over...continued action/movement is irrelevant.
If the best thing going for the JSF right now is that it is a giant workfare program then it truly is doomed to fail. The tea baggers will soon be on it and foreign buyers will soon have the power it dictate their share at the trough.
DeleteThe house of cards is starting to shake. The most adamant F-35 supporters have.little ammunition to argue with except tales of how great things could be if everyone just ignores the evidence in front of them. It's like those religious nut jobs who watch their kid die of cancer, thinking they can cure it by praying harder.
well said.
Deletei wonder why Scar Lett refuses to see that.
Nothing to see. It is you and your type that refuses to see the reality that the F-35 will be here for a long long time and in increasing numbers.
Delete"the voice of the other bloggers out there that are slamming this plane matters" - oh please! If you really believe this than you are even more delusional than I gave you credit for. As I already stated, you are nothing more than a comedy act. The only reason people like myself bother with you is for our own amusement. We don't really believe any of the crap you post. Rather, we find it even funnier - go on, play the "its in a death spiral" one again...
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/07/09/national/japan-may-buy-additional-f-35-jets-price-falls-onodera-says/
ReplyDeleteJapan may buy additional F-35 jets if price falls, Onodera says
FORT WORTH, TEXAS – Japan may purchase additional F-35 fighter jets if their procurement costs fall, Defense Minister Itsunori Onodera said Tuesday after visiting a Lockheed Martin Corp. assembly plant in Fort Worth, Texas.
http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20140708000771
ReplyDeleteSeoul speeds up fighter jet development plan
The KFX program, which includes both the development and production of the home-built warplane, is expected to cost nearly 20 trillion won ($19.7 billion). Under the project, Seoul seeks to deploy 120 fighters after 2023 to replace its aging fleets of F-4s and F-5s.
The task force has had heated discussions particularly on whether to opt for a single- or double-engine platform. Sources said that the taskforce had chosen a double-engine platform.
==========================================
With Japan deferring the work on the F-3 and Europe skipping the 5th gen, the KFX remains the sole available "western bloc" 5th gen alternative to the F-35 until 2030, unless the Turkish TFX is developed and deployed as planned.
The KFX program also complicates things for Australia, for Indonesia is a partner in the project with a 50 jet commitment and may find an Indonesian Air Force equipped with a supercruising low RCS jet armed with a pair of Yakhont-class supersonic anti-ship missiles, able to strike all Australian surface warships at a distance of 300 km.
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ReplyDelete5th Gen and Stealth are just marketing tags.
ReplyDeleteThis will be the most advanced airplane in Occident. Just let Boeing finish the job.
“Right now, today’s Super Hornet is five steps ahead of the enemy with its capability,”
http://www.boeing.com/news/frontiers/archive/2013/december/#/22/
ReplyDelete
Dream on!
DeleteThe Super-Hornet is a reality. It's the F-35 that is still a dream, or should I say nightmare?
DeleteHow many buyers for the Super Hornet - 2 with no more to come!
DeleteHow many buyers for the F-35 - 10 with more to come!
And yes, the F-35 is a nightmare…for its competitors and you basement dwellers...
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ReplyDeleteIt isn't worth the cost. Nothing is worth the cost that this thing is coming in at. The program needs to be halted, maybe even re-vamped back to an R&D program until they get it right. In the mean time, the latest gen F-15, 16 and ASH 18 need to be purchased in moderate numbers each year as an interim solution to keep the TAC airfleets viable for the next 5-10 years while this turkey is either re-designed or a totally new plane is designed. In turn the current base of 15/16/18 aircraft could just be upgraded to latest generation. Their is no immediate treat from the Russian or Chinese fighters. Prudence would be to step back and get this right rather than killing the the budgets of the services trying to pour more treasure on the F35 money pit.
ReplyDeleteSo many billions of taxpayers money, and not only from the US, in this thing, it reached a point that anything that is not a completely operational and ''affordable'' fighter-bomber in the next few years would be a complete disaster.
ReplyDeleteThe US military with it's huge capabilities in other areas and the Advanced Super Hornet solution, would not be extremely affected, although it's reputation as a good weapon seller would be nearly erased. But for other countries, who put a lot in the basket like UK, Italy, Turkey, it would be an expensive disaster and leave their countries with huge holes in air defense and offense areas.
To stop and rethink the F-35 you need to revamp all the Pentagone's adquisition process including all the political an economic elements aka the military industrial complex lobbies...good luck with that.
How many years are they behind now? And what is the latest cost estimate per airframe? Would dropping C and B to concentrate on A save the project? The USN/USMC have options with that UCAV and Hornet that the USAF don't have.
ReplyDeleteActually it should be A and C that are dropped. A & C could be substituted by Silent Hornet purchases, but there is no substitute for B.
DeleteThrow a little money Boeing's way, and they could probably get the B replaced too. At the very least it would put a fire under Lockheed's ass.
DeleteYou can drop the three of them like Spain.
DeleteThey still building amazing ships with the Harrier in mind for their assault forces and Eurofighters and F-18 for air superiority. The US MARINES still using their harriers and they can replace their Hornets by advanced Super Hornets and Growlers to act with those Harriers like they did in Libya. The video is in Spanish but the images are pretty clear.
http://youtu.be/cR5h11TZlSk
http://youtu.be/vned_3TrTmg
DeleteKFX, TFX, ATD-X,
ReplyDeletethe countries that can are looking at the prices of Western fighters and saying, " we can do better than this, right"?
All three, Korea, Turkey, Japan, might indeed buy 'some' F35s, but this is merely to gain experience in working with such an aircraft so they can use that technology in their own planes.
Lockheed is so desperate for F35 commitment orders, they are ignoring the fact they won't be selling as many as they'd hoped.
> the countries that can are looking at the prices of Western fighters and saying, " we can do better than this, right"?
DeleteNo, the KFX and F-3 are born out of a legitimate necessity that they need something better to defend their airspace against Chinese J-20 and the other guy's jet(Japan against KFX and Koreans against F-3) than the F-35 could. Had the US sold F-22s to Japan and Korea, then their respective national fighters would be made cheaper and less capable than they are now. As exemplified by Korea's budget of $20 billion for 120 jets($166 million/unit program cost), it is not the cheaper price that is driving these projects but the capability requirements.
As for the TFX, this really is a vanity project fueled by nationalism, not because Turkey really needs one.
> Lockheed is so desperate for F35 commitment orders, they are ignoring the fact they won't be selling as many as they'd hoped.
Lockheed will soon face a US competition from the winner of T-X contract, which would spawn a low-cost modern-day F-5 called the FT-X that will serve the US Air National Guards and foreign customers who can't afford the F-35.