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| The above photo is of the Israeli Soldier that Hamas has reportedly taken captive. If he is alive or dead is unknown at this time. |
via Yeshiva World.
Seven IDF soldiers were killed in the Golani Brigade armored personnel carrier (APC) in Gaza earlier in the week. Using all scientific and medical technology available, experts have identified the remains of six of the seven soldiers. There has not been a trace of Sgt. Oron Shaul, the soldier which Hamas claims to have abducted.Ok.
It is now permitted to report that the APC was working to extricate a second APC that broke down. The commander and his radio man got out of the armored vehicle as they were working to attach a tow cable to the broken down APC. At that time a short range rocket was fired at the first APC. Commanders in the control center were watching the events in real time via footage from a drone surveillance craft above. They saw the APC explode into flames, commenting no one could have survived the explosion and subsequent fire.
Hamas nonetheless claims to have the soldier, not stating if he is dead or alive, adding Israel will have to pay dearly for any and all information regarding his status. Israel states that it is possible that personal effects of the soldier may have been scattered in the area, explaining how Hamas got hold of his ID card and other personal information.
We finally got a bit of clarification of knowing how that M113 got torched. Of course that raises a few more questions. I don't know if its standard operating procedure in the IDF but in the USMC, you always put out security when recovering vehicles, at your FARPs etc...
Not trying to second guess them. Just wondering out loud.
But this leads me to second question. What did Hamas use to cause that type of catastrophic damage? Have they been taught to hit certain vital areas or are they using weapons that have much bigger warheads than we've seen so far?
Specifically we've all been talking RPGs but Hamas has used 9M133 Kornet missiles. They could have caused this type of destruction and many of these missiles are floating around thanks to the chaos in Syria and Iraq.
The report says "short range rocket", so I'll go with that.
ReplyDeleteHamas in Lebanon had good results using RPGs on Israeli MBTs a few years back. They trained well, knew the weak spots, and had drilled well enough that they were willing and able to wait until their targets got close enough to hit precisely.
Assuming that they train similarly in Gaza isn't much of a stretch. It's not like the M113 isn't pretty well known by all involved, and it's been killed by RPGs as far back as Vietnam.
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?25590-RPG-Attacks-During-Vietnam
And every Iron Dome intercept costs 50,000 per Tamir missile. I wrote a while back that Israel would have to go into Gaza to take out the launch sites and attack the terror networks. I still maintain that the money would have been better spent upgrading Israel's ground forces and active anti-terror humint activities than on Iron Dome. After all, the experience with anti-tank missiles in Lebanon in 2006 should have been a wake up call to anyone paying attention that even new armor isn't the complete answer.
ReplyDeleteAnd depending on how you gauge success, the Iron Dome's kill rate may be as low as just 5%.
Deletehttp://thebulletin.org/evidence-shows-iron-dome-not-working7318
Hey SandWyrm! The effectiveness of Iron Dome is around the 90%. This is from my personal experience! I live in Rehovot, which is not in direct line of fire but close enough to Ashdod that gets the most "visits" and I can hear the booms in the air of the intercepted Hamas rockets. Most rockets land in open areas (it is a very ineffective and inaccurate area bombardment waepon) and no Iron Dome is wasted on these. The system works almost automatically, calculating the rockets' trajectories and the algorithm fires automatically against the threatening ones and guiding them to interception. Very few get through, but some do, and that is why we run to the bomb shelters and wait 10 minutes for the all-clear before coming out.
DeleteTo AM - the money spent on Iron Dome was really worth every penny. See my comment in the next item "This is not the IDF..."
Worth every penny? Really? 26 named casualties of Hamas rockets/mortars pre Iron Dome.
DeleteWas the cost of preventing another 26 worth the cost of not having better armor for your Infantry? Because those pennies had to come from somewhere, and after the lessons Merkava crews learned in Lebanon, the missile threat is only going to get worse. Get modern armor, get better communications for dismounts, fight as a true combined arms team is the only answer to the tactical equation of enterring enemy territory and not getting spit out. The Soviet/German armor in front model doesn't work in cities.
Hi SndWyrm. I read the good profesor Postols' analysis. I think it should join the excellent theories presented against a round Earth theory, with the Earth-centric universe theory, etc. etc.
DeleteDid you read the comments at the end of the article? Most of them say that the true-sounding scientifically-sounding theory notwithstanding, the writers all say that the damage caused in the cities (that the Iron Dome is protecting) is minimal and can be counted on two hands. Take into account that the Grad, with up to 40 km. range has a warhead with 20 kg high explosive. If and wher it lands it is slightly noticeable. Only one dead from all the ones fired (he is a 32 year old beduin in the middle of nowhere, in the direction of Dimona atomic center), where no Iron Dome intercepts were in place. I personally hear all the intercepts in the Ashdod port reagion, which is 10 kms from wher I live. We also had a few in my area - we had the syrens go off and we rushed to our shelter for the 10 minutes recommended by the Home Defense We heard the booms but no damage and we would have been advised on Whatsup or SMS had it landed in our area.
So only 5%???? Come here and judge for yourself.
I'm not sure that the Iron Dome's kill rate (whatever it actually is), can be equated with its "success".
DeleteUndoubtably, it has PR value. But as AM points out, you also have to consider the opportunity cost of spending millions on a marginal civil defense improvement versus the 150 Namer IFVs or other equipment/personnel that could have been acquired for the cost of the nine Iron Dome batteries delivered to date. Lower-cost measures, such as the automatic cell-phone warnings to civilians in targeted areas have undoubtably saved more lives Iron Dome has.
Postol defines a 'kill' as the destruction of the incoming warhead, which may not be fair. Since the explosion of the ID interceptor may serve to knock the rocket off-course from its intended target. Assuming it doesn’t land on an equally satisfying (to the firer) target as a result.
DeleteBut looking at the rest of his analysis, it is hard for me to believe that the system has a combined kill/deflect rate greater than 50-60%. We also have the experience of the Patriot system, which had a claimed success rate 97% during the Gulf War, but which was actually closer to 40% for interceptions over Israel. PR trumps truth during wartime, after all.
Regardless though, a 'boom' in the sky only proves that the ID Interceptor exploded. Not that the incoming rocket's payload was detonated or deflected into a less damaging course. These Hamas rockets are essentially large pipe-bomb fireworks, after all. Their accuracy is pretty laughable to start with.
Was a hit from Kornet AT missile, not RPG ! Thus question of Solomon legitimate ... where did it come from. Contrary to Hezbollah, Hamas has not been known to be particularly proficient in Anti-tank combat, and hasnt been known to use tandem heat charges, so your guess is as good as any. No doubt, the usual suspects are top on the list of possible providers ...
ReplyDeleteGolden BB that one rocket hit just the right place for a K kill.
ReplyDeleteI read where it was determined to be multiple strikes of rockets.