Read about it here.
If the Russians shot this down...or even the rebels...then shit just got real in Ukraine.
Note: More people just died in one day in the Ukrainian civil war than have died in the Irsael vs. Hamas conflict (this most recent one).
Note 1: I wouldn't set foot on a Malaysian Air airliner if you gave me free tickets and filled it with strippers! That airline is snakebit.
If the Russians shot this down...or even the rebels...then shit just got real in Ukraine.
Note: More people just died in one day in the Ukrainian civil war than have died in the Irsael vs. Hamas conflict (this most recent one).
Note 1: I wouldn't set foot on a Malaysian Air airliner if you gave me free tickets and filled it with strippers! That airline is snakebit.
My brother just told me.
ReplyDeletewhat you guys think it's gonna happen now?
John Kerry will go there and pontificate about the pompatus of love and ketchup.
DeleteUkraine is also claiming a Russian fighter jet shot down an SU-25 yesterday. In Ukrainian airspace.
ReplyDeleteReportedly the plane was at 33,000 feet over Donetsk, Ukraine, a war zone 200 km from Russia with closed airspace (to what altitude I don't know).
ReplyDelete"Russians shot this down..." Any sam operater worth his salt would be able to tell if it was a civ airliner. especially with modern SAM's As far as the seps ....they have a Kub.. But it's engagement altitude is only too 8000 m.. Civ airliners normaly fly fly at 10000 m. Unless ofcourse it flew lower. Another possiblity is the Kiev forces. they have the SAM's They have shot down airliners before due to bad untrained personel.
ReplyDeletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812
So it's either Seps or Ukr forces themselfs.
That's my guess as well. I am more inclined to believe it was the rebels confusing it for transport or cargo (recall the past planes shot down by them), given that rebels don't have this kind of plane to use and therefore no real reason for the Ukraine military to take it down.
DeleteRobert, Robert, Robert... how is it in Russia? Sunny?
DeleteRebels dont operate SAMs capable of intercepting planes at 10.000M (cca 33.000 feet) so if it was indeed shoot down this sugests state actor ither Ukraine or Russia.
DeleteUkraine being the desperate party here is my first suspect ,as a measure to put blame and pressure on Russia ,for Russians this makes no sense as the plane was first civilian and second Malaysian so country they have no beef with actually they are in trying to increase the business collaboration
@Brunus, seps said they had an Su-25 and there have been reports of Mi-24's in their hands.
DeleteAlso I must correct myself Sep's had a Buk not a Kub. A Buk would be able to engage airliners at that height.
@Mr-T Seps have shown a captured Buk.
@Sebastian Do you have anything else to add besides gibberish ?
@Robert
DeleteI heard of these reports, but I haven't actually found any reliable sources. Regardless, a Su-25 is very different from an airliner. Hence why I pointed out transport/cargo possibility. Unless, of course, the seps managed to get their hands on some Il or Antonov aircraft, but I don't think that'd be of much use given their restricted operational envelope and I don't think they'd risk using it.
@MrT
DeleteGood points. Malasya also operates Sukhoi aircraft. There's absolutely NO reason the Russians would do this.
If Ukraine did this in an attempt to blame Russia... they have just handed them justification for direct military action, and perhaps even with direct support from Malasya.
Brunus, plane was shoot down probably by Buk missile system, it's detection range is 35 km and plane was shoot down above territory controlled by separatist that is way bigger then 35km. Above all Igor Striełkow admit that they shoot there a plane but he mistake it with Ukrainian An-26.
DeleteUkrainians are already call for international investigation.
One of the leaders of rebels told in his official group in a social web VK (here https://vk.com/strelkov_info , unfortunatly in russian) that the rebels shot down an AN-26 of the army of Ukraine. So, the future shows us what really happened, but the rebels have now buk-m2 SAM' There were messages from the rebels, that they captured a SAM unit. For example in their infoportal http://novorus.info/news/events/24449-nebo-nad-doneckom-budut-zaschischat-zenitno-raketnye-kompleksy-buk.html
ReplyDeleteThey have deleted this post about the downed aircraft An 26 at the moment. It was about 17.50 o'clock Moscow time.
Deletehttp://imgur.com/o7zZDsU - The original post.
DeleteYes, this is it. Thanks.
DeleteThe Russian likely shot down a Ukrainian AN-26 transport plane on Monday too... sooo
ReplyDeletehttp://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-russian-rocket-may-have-downed-military-plane/
Well Igor Striełkow admit on that they shoot it down, but he clams it was An-26.
ReplyDelete"In the area around Torez we just shot down the plane An-26, he go down somewhere behind mine "Progress "- wrote in the 17.50 local time separatist leader profile on the site vkontakte.ru.
It's look like they mistake it with Ukrainian transport plane and shoot down an airliner.
Strelkov said he only post at antikvariat.ru forums long ago and at icorpus.ru. and that VK and facebook profiles aren't legit.
DeleteHe try to withdraw from it don't he. Too late, he was very happy about that shooting down and post it pretty fast after the contact with airliner was lost.
DeleteHe just try to do anything to brush aside accusation, because this is a golden gift for gov. forces and shoot in the leg for separatist.
We will see how this will go.
What ? You don't get it. This was months ago. I'll see if i can find his qoute antikvariat.ru forums regarding his VK and facebook profiles.
DeleteAnd you don't think that it's very suspicious that mere minutes after airliner was shoot down the post appears about "shooting down Ukrainian An-26" that was in this case civilian airliner?
DeleteI think that it's you that don't get it.
It is not unusual for MANPAD and SAM operators to use civilian aircraft as training targets, normally they use a tracking head training device or a dummy missile. In a war zone this device would be rare.
ReplyDeleteA training mission was under way and a Bedford incident transpired.
Rebels have a SA-6 Cube not Buk system and the would on a good day be pushed to hit anything above 24.000 feet ,plus the thing is from a salvage yard so getting system + missles to 100% operational is a stretch ,missiles unlike tanks and ammo have relatively short shelf lives again Cube is not a single vehicle system so needs a coordinated team on radar and missle vehicle again making it quite hard for non state actor to play with .
ReplyDeleteAgain my view is if it was shoot down its ither by Ukraine or Russian military ,but i do not quite see the Russians here so far they played this game with cool heads and no errors so far(plus Malaysia is theri good trading partner and buyer of military gear) , on the other hand Ukrainian goverment that came to power in a coup has so far proven to be quite irrational at times and fully prepared to use violence plus things are not really going their way they are loosing great deal of men and hardware to the locals.
The self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic, which controls the area around the crash site, says that it will pass the flight recorders of the downed plane to Russian authorities.
ReplyDeleteLive RT updates here.
Ukrainians intercept cell phone conversation between separatists and Russian officers from crash site. Separatist say that plane was shoot down by Cossacks from Czernuchino check point, they are very surprise when they found that it was an Malaysian airliner.
ReplyDeleteThey probably try to shoot down Ukrainian transport plane that was scheduled to fly this path today.
Still it's not full confirmed that it's 100% truth. Many nations intelligence agency's observe this region, I think they will be more info in near future.
Yes and you can believe the Kiev story line . LOL so far stories from Kiev have been more or less bad spin and lies that were proven false time and time again.
DeleteThat's why I said that it's not 100% confirmed. But this time it's sound legit, it's better then suggestion from Russia that Ukrainians shoot it down because they think it was a plane with president Putin.
ReplyDeleteUS now confirm that plane was shoot down, but for now nothing else.
Is it in English?
DeleteIt was a translation from Russian language in Polish.
DeleteAccording to flightradar24 the last received coordinates were just 10 miles away from the Russian border:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.flightradar24.com/data/airplanes/9m-mrd/#3d6095b
More from US news:
ReplyDelete"The United States has concluded the Malaysian airline was shot down, a senior U.S. official told CNN's Barbara Starr. One radar system saw a surface-to-air missile system turn on and track an aircraft right before the plane went down Thursday, according to the official. A second system saw a heat signature at the time the airliner was hit, the official said. The United States is analyzing the trajectory of the missile to try to learn where the attack came from."
Yes the same aholes probably concluded that guys in Donetsk were russian specnaz already seen in georgia till russian and finish blogers proved them bunch of airsofters and war reenactors. Followed by blatant lies and misinformation about firearms and gear used by separatists(trying to connect them hard to russia)
DeleteTake a look at the map an see who has radar coverage anywhere near there (assume 400-500km to be max) ,you will end up with only Ukraine ,Russia and maybe Belarus having possible radar coverage ,ships in black sea are to far ,satelite coverage ?? wouldn't bet on it. Radar systems don't see target tracking radars let alone ones 400-500km away ,we have seen how effective they were in Kosovo where they couldn't suppress 60's SAMs in a very small arena let alone find them and destroy them . Same in Iraq where they needed to send pople on the ground to try and find Scuds. Airpower is mighty but not even close to what they would like you to believe. Think Shas Think before asuming everything you haer to be true.
Shas just for fun try reading stuff that comes form a bit more reliable sources with no beef in the ring.
This is a good start Finnland is an Eu member but Finns are also great experts on russian gear. I recently(a week ago) took part a military competition in Finland. Russian gear and tactics are still the name of the game there.
Read this
http://www.suomensotilas.fi/en/artikkelit/little-green-men-are-different-time?q=en/
Some more articles for you to read
Deletehttp://www.suomensotilas.fi/en/artikkelit/crimea-invaded-high-readiness-forces-russian-federation
http://www.suomensotilas.fi/en/artikkelit/fallen-in-trap-of-love
http://www.suomensotilas.fi/en/artikkelit/easter-bunnies-are-hobbyist-and-reservists
http://www.suomensotilas.fi/en/artikkelit/little-green-men-are-different-time
http://www.suomensotilas.fi/en/artikkelit/peacekeepers-with-avtomats-on-side
http://www.suomensotilas.fi/en/artikkelit/panzeralarm-die-russen-kommen
http://www.suomensotilas.fi/en/artikkelit/men-pads-and-kids-too
You forget about one thing, the nearest radar was in the air... NATO AWACS still patrolling airspace near Ukrainian border. And he see ALL that territory and pretty large piece of Russia behind border. For heat signature you don't need radar, recon satellite could notice that.
DeletePowerful radar systems can detect and track missile, how do you think Patriot and every single one anti missile system work?
You have your info, I will believe in other. Separatist say that they would be unable to shoot it down because they don't have a weapon system with that range, only man pads. You know a manpad that can hit a transport plane above 6 km like that shoot down Ukrainian transport plane early this week?
I believe in facts that are unquestionable. When separatist leader boast about how they shoot down an plane and when it came out that it was a civilian airliner he delete his post... yeah, I believe that that fraker did that.
I will wait for opinion of multinational group that will study this. One solid proof that Ukraine did not do that is that they already call for that group and even ask Netherlands to lead that group. If they had anything to hide, well they would try to stall it.
I'm almost sure that every major player that observe Ukraine already know who launch that missile, and soon for the sake of all victims we will know this too.
I believe the rebels took down the plane by confusing it with a cargo plane, or Ukraine accidentally took it down. But...
DeleteWhere did they get the Buks for this? Sure, they got tanks and APCs from these depots, but Buks are a wee bit more complicated to operate than these, and I don't remember there being talk about a Buk platform being left at the bases they conquered (and that would be stupid... they had no air assets at the time. The su-25 and mi helicopter reports came after these mechanical units were captured)
Putin called Obama as soon as he knew about the incident. Does that automatically makes Russia innocent? I don't think so. Both sides called for an investigation.
Not unless is flying in middle of Ukraine ,you are limited to max 600km but in reality you are closer to 400km range ,measure distances on the map and you realize that radar coverage of donetsk luganske regions by NATO asset is highly unlikely.
DeleteYou are vandering , radars can track missles especially air defense radars that is what they are designed to do but detection range depends on target size ,awacs even if in range could track an airliner lets say 500km away but would only be able to track a SAM much less distance(maybe 100km or less) as the missile doesn't have a huge RCS . As for tracking missile guidance radar ,that beam is directional and very narrow so unless you have an ELINT plane close to the radar beam direction you are not seeing it.
As for satelite tracking IR signatures those were designed to track ICBMs that have heat signature many times higher than any SAM
Again educate yourself a bit and do some 'light' reading from quality sources
A short read on Cube system that is supposed to be in hands of the 'separatists' (Cube and Buk look similar enough so is an easy sell to uneducated jurnalists)
http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-2K12-Kvadrat.html
A short read on detecting radar signals
http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Warpac-Rus-PLA-ESM.html
Some super short read on RCS and detection ranges
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/stealth-aircraft-rcs.htm
http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-2K12-Kvadrat.html
You know Mr.T it's even worst for separatist that they have Kub as you said... it got shorter range.
Delete154 of my fellow Dutchmen...
ReplyDeletePlease accept my sincere condolences. [*]
DeleteWill France still deliver 2 Mistral-class amphibious assault ships to Russia?
ReplyDeletewhy not, they on the other end of Europe...they don't have the Black Sea...
DeleteWho is responsible for NOTAMs, what was the manegement of this company not aware above what ground they're planes were flying.
ReplyDeleteAnd yes the rebels have a captured BUK missile complex, the launchers can fire and target the missile.
Wow... president Obama sound like he get back his balls from a storage. First time for a long, long time he speak like a leader of powerful nation... wait, more... first time he speak like a Leader!
ReplyDeleteBut words cost nothing, let's see if after them some real action will came.
Some of Russian media promote theory that plane that was shoot down was in fact the lost Malaysia Air flight that disappear couple of months ago. Now Igor Striełkow join to this craziness and said that that was a "medical transport" with dead bodies and everyone on board of this plane were dead for a long time.
ReplyDelete0_o ... this is bat shit crazy beyond a bat shit crazy.