Thanks Mr. T for the pics...
The below pics are obviously propaganda from ISIS and I have no idea about the time when they were taken. By that I mean was this during recent battles or from the initial assault. But one thing is clear. The Iraqi Army got throat punched despite having first rate equipment.
The below pics are obviously propaganda from ISIS and I have no idea about the time when they were taken. By that I mean was this during recent battles or from the initial assault. But one thing is clear. The Iraqi Army got throat punched despite having first rate equipment.
The last shot shows what happens when one gets excited and drives the M-1 where it can't go. The others? Hard to say but there are some fuel cells surrounding the turbine engine that if they get damaged (hot area), you get a fire that probably won't get put out.
ReplyDeleteIf you look for the picts on the net that Abrams drove into an IED crater ,that was created just seconds before.The other interesting picts you will find is that the ISIS fighters are used M2HB to hammer this column.
DeleteIMHO Western armored vehicles means western strategy of distance fire (which means in turn excellent system of reconnaissance and surveillance, including eye-from-the sky satellite’s group) and should manned by qualified personnel.
ReplyDeleteIt looks like Russian and Chinese rough-and-ready material is more suitable to Iraqi needs and possibilities.
I must object!
DeleteNo mater if they will ride in US, EU, Russian, Indian, Chinese or Zimbabwe the effect will be always the same. They don't have balls, zero morale, no fighting spirit, not a single drop of esprit de corps. Cowards will be cowards, no mater if they sit in tank for a million euro or a thousand yuan.
Agree, it is predictable, because IMHO base of modern Iraqi consists of betrayers, who once stepped away their national leader and country’s interests and fell under yellow boots of brave western soldiers. No honor-no officer, no officer- no army, no army –no country.
DeleteBut it doesn’t deny that material with possibility to use high-explosive shell’s is preferably against Toyota-warriors then Abrams, designed to face attacking Russian tank’s hordes.
Shas is right, even if these guys had Optimus Prime at their sides, they would run.
DeleteGiving equipment to these dudes was a mistake. BTW, i think the same thing gonna happen to the russian equipment they just bought.
BTW, i think the same thing gonna happen to the russian equipment they just bought.
DeleteMaybe, but even cowards can be brave facing their death. If Iraqi soldiers lose – they and their nearest and dearest be in dust with open bottoms. Everything is simple – so it is too early, I guess, there is still plenty of life left in Iraqi Army.
Not if the helos will be piloted by Russians and Su-25's by again Russians and Iranians. Russians "volunteers" will be well trained, probably some of them even had combat experience. The money will be good and I think they will be definitely the more dependable. Iranians are unknown, probably well trained with religious motivation.
DeleteI don't say that all in Iraq army are bunch of cowards that should be run on the road like rabid dogs... but, well... you all saw those pics.
Ok,you guys says that russian and iranian "mercs" gonna pilot the new gear they got, wouldn't be better if they did the same with infantary? get a couple of mercs to be with the army?
DeleteTo Andre Pimenta
DeleteOk,you guys says that russian and iranian "mercs" gonna pilot the new gear they got, wouldn't be better if they did the same with infantary? get a couple of mercs to be with the army?
I guess it is more the possible – at least for Russia, Iraq – is too tasty candy for us to lose, at least lose without fight. But Georgian army had excellent instructors and was better equipped then Russian (I never talk about Ossetian paramilitaries). Russian forces attacked in our beloved face to face manner (“closing in-fight”) and Georgian shivered and shattered in spite of Georgian supreme in artillery, armored vehicles’ quality and quantity, and a lot of force at hand in circumstances of familiar landscape.
Another example, controversial one. Totally degraded during 20 years Ukrainian army successfully resolve tasks against highly motivated and brave rebels, whose consist of Russian “warlords” with huge battle experience, mercs, volunteers and local paramilitaries. The Ukrainian Maydan rulers were stupid enough to organize riot against balls-less Yanukovich using Ukainan Nazy ideas. Even in nowadays perverted Russian and Ukrainian society there are a lot of people ready to fight by death against Nazy. Even me, fat Moscow clerk, had some dreams about this. So rebels in former Ukraine is highly motivated, with enough experienced in war people. But Ukrainian soviet-fashioned artillery rules. Superiority in armored vehicles and absence of rebels’ aviation exists too. And Ukrainian army still resolves their tasks.
So, spirit is important, but adequate material is important too, absence of one can be compensated with superiority of another. As I got it, Solomon is not happy about American material screwed up by Iraqi. And my idea is that it dosen’t mean American material isn’t good. The material is not for Iraqi, fighting against Muslim maniacs on Toyota’s with mounted guns.
Georgian holded ground thanks to US support : Intel, training, probably SF...
DeleteUkrain rebels are losing only because russia give them limited or no help . In contrary syria rebels recieved full support ( perhaps still recieve ) and just holded their homelands...
ISIS hold homeland and deserts... Great distance : WHAT IS THE PROBLEM WITH ABRAMS ? AUTONOMY !!!
They probably all were out of fuel on battlefield : an immobilized tank is an easy target -> every tankist will destroy tank and run... to avoid losing his head !
Be fair with iraki army : they don't have support to save them.
The furniture of RPG29 to ISIS, by US allies or even US directly doesn't help iraki abrams...
To conclude : I'm not sure that US doesn't want ISIS win... they could have burn them to dirt within 2 hour if they wanted : How many Aircraft carrier near ? 2 - 3 ?
Russia support to separatist is pretty large but not in scale of regular army arms but mostly for type of skirmish fights. Also they can't send more because Kreml is still trying to look like he is outside that conflict and the biggest gambit was those ex-Ukrainian tanks or that Tigr. So personal weapons, explosives, portable AT, mortars, ammo, "volunteers" for now.
DeleteI absolutely agree with info-infanterie about that irresistible urge to be a hero that fight with Nazi, the one of probably top 5 the most evil regime in modern history. You read about that, play games, watch movies, always those heroes against evil Nazi. Especially in all those nations that suffer greatly under that regime, for Russians is almost a mythology a sacred fight.
It's a powerful tool also to manipulate that type of society, as William Shakespeare write "cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war", for Soviet and now Russians is "cry fascist/Nazis and let slip the dogs of war". This is a powerful call that many will respond.
Also absolutely agree that even if spirit and morale are high you will loose when you will brave throwing rocks against incoming tanks.
to fabsther
DeleteThey probably all were out of fuel on battlefield : an immobilized tank is an easy target
According to photo we discuss Abrams were part of armored vehicles organized column. And a cistern with fuel must be there, so lack of fuel was not crucial in the case. Anyway strategic and tactical mobility of Abrams are not excellent – it is true. I guess the column fell into a trap on road had had no possibility to protect themselves. In this circumstances high-explosive shells are excellent, but APFSDS, НЕАТ-МР-Т and even Anti-personnel Canister Cartridge are not enough.
The furniture of RPG29 to ISIS, by US allies or even US directly doesn't help iraki abrams...
Every modern tank has its weak zones can be destroyed even with RPG-7 rockets. I saw pictures where militants went to Iraqi tank close and throw a bomb inside the tank through the its hatch. It looks like Iraqi have a lot of problems with discipline and battlefield organization – in this case even old rockets to RPG-7 and hand-made bombs are the real problem.
to Shas
DeleteSo personal weapons, explosives, portable AT, mortars, ammo, "volunteers" for now.
But Ukrainian military still stand against rebels - it was surprise-surprise for me personally.
for Soviet and now Russians is "cry fascist/Nazis and let slip the dogs of war". This is a powerful call that many will respond.
Right – we are “mobilizing type” society – which is not effective without authoritarian or totalitarian super-state. But Russians destroyed once one totalitarian super-state and were not happy about possibility of having another to arise. It was Putin’s problem - now he uses image of Nazi, of Enemy and will create a authoritarian state soon. This is why I’m sure it was strong but hidden Putin’s influence on the Maydan.
But Ukrainian military still stand against rebels - it was surprise-surprise for me personally.
Delete-> because russia moderatly support separatist while USA / OTAN give full help to ukraine, including mdedia blackout on war incident ( they always happends, especialy in civil war ) on civilians ect..
Have you seen any dead children or bloodbath on ukraine ? It's even more blackouted than France War in MALI !
Wait and See..
"It looks like Russian and Chinese rough-and-ready material is more suitable to Iraqi needs and possibilities"
DeleteThey would have been yeah, but i think its a little too late now.
Even the most simplistic of eastern armaments will do nothing to undue the clusterfuck that IS the Iraqi Armed Forces.
Rather than buying western arms, they should have bought simpler equipment optimized for urban warfare and dedicated the rest of their money to training and foreign advisors. Cant have any of that nonsense though :(
Rather than buying western arms, they should have bought simpler equipment optimized for urban warfare
DeleteIf mere logic - yes, it is. But where is any profit here for western weapon-makers? Iraq bought Abrams for 6 million $ per one. T 90 (obviously better for Iraqi-style dusterfuck) costs about 3 million $. I hope after Iraqi will screw up all their Abrams it be some alive Iraqi with money to buy Russian tanks))))
Probably we will see an influx of weapons Made in Russia as some additional compensation for "volunteer" pilots, probably the same case will be with weapons Made in Iran. Who know, maybe some Zulfiqar and Boragh.
DeleteOnce again info,
DeleteYou are absolutely right on the money.
Afterall, why would the US defense industries even find it acceptable that the Iraqi armed forces NOT look at their equipment? They simply wouldn't. More expensive, complex, and maintenance intensive (which describes US AFVs and aircraft to a T) vehicles equals more money for contracts. Overall combat effectiveness be damned.
Another interesting fact I keep forgetting to mention here. One has to examine the vehicles the Peshmerga operates. Older Soviet AFVs. T55s even. Most likely, this is out of necessity, since they are not fully independent (and that will change. good riddance). However, it inadvertently strengthens their independence and self sufficiency in many ways. Alongside their effectiveness.
By the looks of it in kirkuk however, they could benefit from heavy mortars, artillery, and some T72s and BMP-Ts. and make benefit from some mongol military advisors. One can dream. Ill be making a kurdistan "wish list".
Hell these clowns buried MiG-25 Foxbats under Iraqi talcum powder sand so to dig up afterwards and fly again.
DeleteMultimillion dollar jet aircraft High tech handed to them and they buried them under twenty feet of sand.
Body of a grown man, the mind of a superstition, uncomprehending child.
Into the valley of death rode the six hundred.
ReplyDeleteTheir equipment first rate, their men trained by the best, led by Incompetent fools, whose only claim to being an Officer in their Army was loyalty to the tribe, being kin to someone important, and the Religion of Peace, It was Allah's will.
At least now we know that all that American equipment that went to Afghanistan, Egypt and other Muslim enemies is more than useless in their hands.
If ya give an ape an AK 47 he may accidentally kill you, give him an Abrams tank and he will kill himself.
You people bored me so much that I can't read all of the drivel... Desert Storm tank company commander with 1AD here... The M1A1 pics are Egyptian, not Iraqi. Seriously questioning you people.
ReplyDeleteyou're smoking crack air traffic controller dude. sell your bullshit elsewhere.
Deletecalling Arabs apes coz they lost a tank battle even though Americans withdrew from Iraq (aka got defeated), in Arabic sites i found them siting a lot of IEDs were used in that battle, something even Americans didn't farewell against either, Russians lost loads on tanks in grozni yet no one here is calling them apes.
ReplyDeletethe way i see it, many are in denial as in they cant believe their super tank is just another tank easily destroyed in a none favoring environment.
what the fuck are you talking about? you really need to find a deep hole, climb in and beg someone to fill it.
Deletethe son of a bitches ran away. its documented. pound sand motherfucker, eat shit, just get off my page hadji.